Kevin Cannon
Forum Replies Created
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Hi John,
No doubt the Red wins on the specs – but I also think Red cameras have a way of underperforming their specs…
Basically I would my preference down to the Red’s rendition of reds, yellows and greens, especially in projects where skin tones should be saturated but strange contours of green and yellow appear around eyes and mouths. It was the worst in some of the old “RedColor” color space settings. Resolve can apply the newer decoder settings, thankfully, but I still hold it against the Red One. Working with intercut Epic and Red One material demonstrates that new decoder options don’t quite make up the difference.
The C300 has a lot of different issues. I did two similar spots for the same client yesterday, one MX and one C300. The C300 landed more quickly and was more appealing (in my opinion). Lots of projects I’m sure it wouldn’t work out that way.
KC
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After another day of C300, I wouldn’t dismiss it as quickly as most in this thread…
If I were ranking my preference in cameras to grade from favorite to least, it would be something like Alexa, Epic, F3, C300, Red One/MX, 5D/7D.
I think ranking those in price it would be almost the same- Alexa, Epic, C300, F3, Red One/MX, 5D/7D.
The C300 seems uninspiring but kind of generically in the middle. It does kinda feel like the last “video camera”. Mostly I see it come up for branded web content/long form commercials etc.
KC
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Hi Perry,
I’ve just been grading a couple long-form C300 commercials this week, and discussing the camera related to another project with a DP/gaffer.
On the material I’ve been grading (ProRes422HQ transcodes of the MXFs), I definitely find noise comes up quickly when lifting shots – in this case, dark saturated reds (like in a flannel shirt) were the worst culprit. The material is almost all very high key day interiors, which started bright and look great and noiseless. The issue shows up in the few night exteriors that had to be brought up a bit. I didn’t notice any banding, but I can’t think of any shots that would have really tested that. The NR in Resolve seemed to handle it pretty well.
My impression is that the camera needs a lot of light at a low ISO, and no resizing to look its best.
KC
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Thanks Rohit,
That should still be helpful on some other projects where the media in the pool is shorter than the original media (because it was trimmed). I’ll spend a little time testing that behavior and how it might help us to switch between managed media and full original media.
Cheers,
KC
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+1
If that change came along with some additional colortrace functionality to use other-than-version-1 versions, that would be great as well.
KC
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Hi Sean,
We’ve had this request before from larger companies that for whatever reason find it easier to add an employee to the payroll than to write checks to an outside vendor. In our cases, often the producers have to get any vendor onto an approved vendor list, which can be difficult or slow.
In all our cases, we explain that we can’t do that and they have been able to work with us as a vendor. It’s possible some folks hiring will be more or less hamstringed, but you’re probably correct in thinking being on payroll doesn’t accurately reflect the way in which you and your company are operating.
Cheers,
KC
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Hi Robert, in response to a few things here:
“In most cases, they trust them because they believe that they have been “super calibrated” at the factory and because the company gives great service and is run by quite obviously great guys. They do not check this “super calibration” in a technically rigorous manner, if at all – because part of what they are paying for is the impression that they do not have to.”
Of course many of FSI’s customers test the calibration a technically rigorous manner. I have the 2461w shot, adjusted and reported alongside every other display we color with, projector or plasma or LCD. How else would one know when it’s time to sent it to FSI for recalibration? And I have it shot when we get it back from Flanders, just to ensure they didn’t screw it up. I’m not shy about telling a manufacturer they screwed up. I sent 6 consecutive Dreamcolors back to HP.
“It might appear to be true if you test just one image – an image that does not contain the problems we discuss here – and compare it to a more high-end offering. That image, free of the “problem areas” of a Flanders monitor, will look great “compare to a Barco” etc. and thus the reports. But when you compare it using the “wrong” image…”
I’m on year two of comparing them daily with extremely varied material. I haven’t found an image that suddenly breaks the 2461w.
“The first stage of grief is always denial. I think this is why so many here do not want to accept simple technical observations, even if they happen to match their perceptual ones.”
I think if you want to make technical observations, just about everybody here would be interested. Getting several high-quality spectroradiometers and probes and a number of displays from different manufacturers, like the Dolby and the 2461w and the usual Plasmas, the Sony OLED etc. then shooting them all and posting the results and your methodology would be extremely welcome (and eliminate potential error from comparing different panels and different probes, perhaps sorting out why our results shooting the 2461w are nowhere near your friend’s in London).
My off-the-cuff prediction for that kind of a shootout? That the FSI doesn’t hold as rock solid as the (emmy-winning) Dolby or Digital Cinema projectors, but that it beats out a whole class of under (and maybe over) $10,000 monitors. But I would love to know what options can compete – like Steve Shaw said, there’s not a lot else to consider at the $5,000 price range, and the current state of things, asking for more precision puts you in the very high-end. I’m very happy with the two 2461s in our place, and excited that Bram and FSI are exploring ways to make it better. Thanks!
KC
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Hi Matt,
I ran into this as well. I found (oddly) that if I saved the project, then loaded the current project, they would suddenly be back again (for a while). Doesn’t help to solve the problem but might come in handy if it happens in front of clients and you need to get back on track immediately.
KC
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Hi Robert,
The way you put it, I think you’ll provoke a few responses…
I color with a Barco DP2K-P DCI projector on a Stewart matte screen – I have it professionally calibrated more often than it needs (we shoot the colors, but it never drifts except after lamp changes). I consider it the “ground truth.”
When I work in Rec. 709 (which is often – and not for wedding videos), I output the same signal to a Flanders 2461w in the suite, just off to the side. We test it occasionally, and I send it back to Flanders for calibration occasionally. The Barco and Flanders, while they have inherent differences being different display technologies, basically match and reinforce each other (I’ll let somebody else tackle why two correctly calibrated displays can look different).
I can say that in two years with this set-up, I never have to make grading decisions based on one and not the other, they line up well. I’m not familiar with the HD2line, are they comparable in price? The high-end suites I’ve been discussing with people are springing for the Dolby PRM4200.
KC
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Hi Chris,
You could create a DaVinci-compatible LUT with the online Arri LUT generator, and specify a Look file to include in the LUT (along with the logC to Rec709 or P3 conversion). The downside is that as far as I can tell, you can’t make a LUT without the Rec.709/P3 conversion, with just the look file. And you need the look file itself. Also use a browser that isn’t Safari, there’s some kind of browser issue.
KC