[Jack Chavez]

Thanks all for the comments.

My goal is to be able to preserve the “look” of the R3Ds throughout the pipeline (Premiere, AE, and ideally Fusion, to Resolve) so that when the Colorist comes in the rendered VFX shots match the camera originals (as defined by the settings in the metadata.) Hence my desire to deliver EXRs.

• R3Ds — In both AE and Fusion, I’ve started with the default interpretation, which references the metadata for deBayering, so to my mind they SHOULD match on the scopes, but don’t for some reason. Perhaps AE is doing some soft-clipping.
• Didn’t know that about ProPhoto. I’ve seen it recommended in a few different places but, yeah, in the Adobe documentation for sure.
• “how are you comparing them? each program has its own particular flavor of color management. do they match if you import then into the same program window?” The screenshots I’ve posted show just that. The first image is both R3D and EXR layered with a mask on the first one — as described. The Fusion screenshot is as described as well. The scopes I’ve posted show the different ways the data is being interpreted by the software in each case.
• If I export an EXR sequence out of AE with certain settings it does match the AE interpretation of the R3D. Same for Fusion to Fusion. Not for Fusion to AE so far. EXRs from RED Cine-X look nothing like the original image. There may be a certain amount of PEBCAK involved here. ????

I have figured out a somewhat workable process that works from AE to Resolve but I’m not satisfied with it. I will continue doing more testing and probably talk to Adobe, BM and RED about the various issues I’ve encountered. (Let the finger pointing begin! ????) I hesitate to post it until I’m satisfied that it works the way I want it to.

I have considered using OCIO and bypassing AE color management entirely, but feel I shouldn’t HAVE to. Perhaps that’s where I’ll end up but I’m going to tackle this puzzle a while longer.

Cheers.

[Jack Chavez]

Stepping back is a good idea.

I’ve gone back to RED Cine-X and have exported EXR and DPX sequences with a variety of settings that seem like they would might work but I have yet to create files that are satisfactory in either Premiere or AE. I will keep working on it….

[Jack Chavez]

“Have you tried setting the AE project Working Space to none, and 32bpc? Then when you bring in your EXRs and R3D, preserve their RGBs.”

I have. The issue persists.

Digging a bit deeper, it appears that it’s the interpretation of the R3D files that is the issue. Here’s the scopes in Fusion with the R3D on the left and the EXR on the right. (click to expand).

Note that they are the same.

Here are the same 2 files in AE with the AE project Working Space to none, and 32bpc. Preserve RGB is ticked for both.
First the EXR. Nice, as it should be.

Next the R3D. Something appears to be going on with the way the R3D is being interpreted such that the mids to the highlights are being compressed below 90 IRE.

I’ve also tried going into the custom R3D settings and making some adjustments, but 1) I shouldn’t have to and 2) I can’t access other parts of AE while I make changes so it’s a bit of a fool’s errand.

I’ve read previous replies from Andrew Somers to others and found them very enlightening but that knowledge hasn’t helped me crack this puzzle.
(ex. https://www.generaltitles.com/helpfiles/13-q-a-blog/colorspaces-and-file-types/14-red-and-after-effects

Other thoughts out there?

[Jack Chavez]

A very simple way would be use use the Cineware layer in AE. That gives you access to full 3D modeling tools. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were able to find a free 3D model in OBJ format online and simply import it.

Cheeers.

[Jack Chavez]

Dunno about MAKING one, but If you’re running AE 2018 or earlier (all the way back to 2004) you can call up Color Finesse and presto! you have a working scope. 2019 or later you can do something similar with Lumetri and Lumetri Scope. Maybe record them in action and time ramp?

I would think making one would require quite a bit of coding but I look forward to other answers.

Cheers.

[Jack Chavez]

Sure.

Use Replace With

Keyboard shortcut OPTION /
I think it’s COMMAND OPTION / (the same as in After Effects, incidentally) in versions prior to R15.

I tested it on a spline text object with an extrusion featuring fillet caps. Did a Replace With on the spline and voila!

From the R15 Manual
……………………………
Use this command to replace an object, or parts of an object (such as tags, User Data and so on…) with another one. Simply select the object to replace, then run the command to enter a pick session and select the object that will replace it. During the pick session, the object can be selected either in the viewport or in the Object Manager.

This command can be used on a variety of tasks, as it will not only replace an object entirely, but can be made to replace just the name, the object type, the parameters, etc. of an object by those of another one.

Options
Note that the Options pop-up (when called up via a hotkey) can be activated every time you run the command if you enable Options mode for the command, in the Window / Customization / Customize Commands Manager.

Tip:
When more than one object is selected, it will enter a multi-pick session when running the Replace With command. A multi-pick session allows you to pick one or several objects to be used as replacements. Ctrl/Cmd and Shift are used to add or remove to the selection of objects, and hitting Enter will confirm your selection.

If only one object is picked, then this object will be used for the replacement. If more than one object is selected, the replacement order will be based on the selection order, both before activating the command and during the multi-pick session (first object selected to be replaced will be switched with the first selected object during the multipick session, and so on).
……………………………..

The only thing I don’t know is since this is in the character menu whether it applies to all versions of C4D. I don’t have a non-Studio version to test that.
I HIGHLY recommend enabling the Options menu.

– JC

[Jack Chavez]

Unless things have changed, if you have the MSA, the EULA restriction on the number of machines that Cinema can be installed on is eased to permit 2 full installations, but it still only allows you to use one at a time.

Not sure about whether the license server version has to match the release version of C4D. I don’t see why it should but then again…

[Jack Chavez]

What will the alpha hold out mattes with the object buffers do?

I don’t have C4D with me right now to test this but if C4D renders out a shadow pass complete – that is without automatically generating a holdout matte for objects in the foreground then when you layer it in your compositing program the shadows that are supposed to be behind something will be on top of it. Separate object buffer passes would allow you to easily mask out things in the foreground to provide exact control of your shadows.

So focal length 50 in my 5d will correspond with focal length 50 in C4D. Am i right_

In this case that appears to be true because the width of the sensor on that camera is 36mm. The perspective is dependent on the FOCAL LENGTH and the APERTURE WIDTH as well as subject to focal plane distance. The wider your focal length the more critical these parameters are. In this case you just happen to be using a camera with the default APERTURE WIDTH. You may still have issues with optical distortion though (especially with wide angle lenses) and may want to un-distort your image before bringing it in and attaching it to the background object as a reference and then apply that distortion in reverse to your 3D render in your compositing program over the original image so that all convergence lines match up.

Keep in mind that I’m new to the program and all is this is from my perspective as to how it should work and not any significant amount of practical experience (yet).

[Jack Chavez]

Good idea. However, there’s more.

The issue is that we’re using C4D to previz the whole project and set up our camera including lens choices based on that so that all the 3D will look just right in post (field of view, perspective, tilt, camera height, etc.) In this case, deriving the data after the fact – while it would work – won’t satisfy the creative intent.

I may have figured out a solution. Some research reveals that the horizontal width of the F900 sensor is 9.58mm. Adding that info into C4D lines up with what pCam tells me within 2/10ths of a degree for Field of View.

I’m still curious as to the best approach. Someone has surely worked this out in the past. It should be a simple matter of working out the math.

– JC

[Jack Chavez]

Adam, can Syntheyes do a 3D solve for static shots? I suppose you could manually place trackers and set up a coordinate system with known X,Y,Z values but I don’t see how that would be an advantage over just building it in 3D.

Can you explain further?

– JC