[Herb Sevush]

Tim –

I have really eclectic taste in music – are you saying that other than the 4 lads from liverpool, they cover everythig else – Missa Luba (Mass song in congolese), Paul Horn inside the Taj Mahal, Lo and Behold (mcguiness flynt singing the basement tapes) – this type of stuff? Also what do you use to store songs when downloading? MP3 players or phones or what? This might save me a major purchase if it can work.

Thanks.

[Tim Wilson] “There’s nothing worse than losing music. (That’s right, I said NOTHING.)”

Words to live by.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “Good thing as John mentioned, you have alternatives like Spotify.”

Spotify is not a good alternative for me, as explained elsewhere. As for Adobe, at the point at which they shut me out without options, I will be just as mad. The difference is Apple is screwing me today, with Adobe it’s still theoretical.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[John Davidson] “Just get Spotify and sync your iTunes playlists to your spotify account via the desktop app, sync what you want to your iPhone and the rest will stream when you need it.”

That would work for a lot of casual listeners, but Spotify probably carries about 60% of what I listen to – what do I do for the other 2500 songs?

[John Davidson] ” The world of physical storage of music is pretty much over. It sucks to get used to at first but doing the math, 30 years of Spotify is cheaper than all the CDs I’d buy in that same amount of time.”

Spotify is the equivalent of listening to pretty good FM radio. It is not adequate for listeners with broad and eclectic tastes. It is also restricted to places that are wi-fi enabled, which is way to limiting for me.

Apple supplies a physical storage solution, it’s called a 128 gig Iphone, and apparently I may have to buy the dammed thing just so I can listen to music. Oh well.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Steve Connor] “The Classic had been going for almost 14 years and the Touch was clearly the replacement for it, they ran them both side by side and they kept going with the Classic much longer than everyone expected.”

I understand products change over time — kill the Classic and have a new high-end Touch with roughly the same storage for twice the price. Fine, I get that. But that isn’t what happened. Does the new Macbook have less memory than preceding versions, because the Touch has about half the memory of the Classic?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeff Markgraf] “I think Bill’s point is that “I like working this way/I’ve always worked this way” is absolutely NOT equivalent to “I MUST work this way.” If we stay focused on the result, rather than the process, we can evaluate and perhaps adopt new and different ways of working.
“

True. But in my case there is so much about the design precepts of X that run counter to all my editorial leanings that while I find, at a distance, much to admire about X it has never struck me as the place I would want to invest my time. My dream NLE hasn’t shown up yet, but I’m still waiting.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Walter Soyka] “There’s no roles mixer in FCPX today, but that doesn’t mean that a trackless system can never bus and/or mix. A track can only accommodate a single element at a specific time in Premiere Pro today, but that doesn’t mean that a tracked system can never avoid clip collisions.”

Perfectly stated.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeff Markgraf] “On the one hand, [Herb Sevush] “I don’t think there’s anything that X can’t do.”
On the other hand, [Herb Sevush] “the difference is that the structure of a tracked NLE allows for this possibility.”
The logical inverse of this statement, to me, is that “the structure of a non-tracked NLE does not allow for this possibility.””

When I said there’s nothing X can’t do I was referring to the finished editorial object – there’s no type of project that X can’t do. Workflows are somewhat malleable, there are many different way to produce the same deliverables. I’ve cut the same series I’m working on now with 3 different NLE’s – *edit, FCP and now Ppro. Ppro, because of it’s track mixer, is the easiest to work with, but I had no unworkable problems with the other 2 before now. I’m quite sure I could cut this series with X or Avid as well.

The question is which NLE makes the most overall sense for me to work with at this time. My answer, for this moment, is Ppro.

[Jeff Markgraf] “Yes, in its current development state, X doesn’t do some of the track-based techniques that are important to some workflows (like yours). But I don’t see any evidence that X’s “trackless” mode prohibits the implementation of these techniques. Apple’s philosophy may prohibit such functions, but that’s a whole different thing.”

I’ll grant you that you could create a trackless system that would be as effective – roles based mixer, color coded roles, single keystroke assigning of roles to a clip in the timeline the same way that multicam assigns a video angle with a single keystroke.

At the same time you must also grant that a tracked system could be created that avoids clip collisions – in fact the very first digital NLE (EMC) did just that.

I don’t think the current batch of NLE’s have exhausted the possibilities in any way.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeff Markgraf] “While X can’t do this in its current state, I’m not so sure I’d call it impossible to do because of the trackless mode. “

Jeff –

I don’t think there’s anything that X can’t do. I also don’t think there’s anything Avid or Ppro can’t do – it’s all about how quick, how fast, how easy and most importantly how it syncs with your workflow.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeff Markgraf] “So one can look at this situation as a specific positive feature of PPro, or as a failing of all other current NLEs. And unrelated to the tracks vs. trackless discussion.”

First of all I don’t know for sure that no other NLE can do this, I’m thinking Vegas, with it’s history of starting as a DAW, might have a complete mixer built in.

Second, the difference is that the structure of a tracked NLE allows for this possibility – FCP Legend had a track mixer built in, it would have been simple to upgrade it to Ppro’s capabilities (FCP 8.0 ?) – whereas with a trackless design, even with a roles based mixer, you would constantly have to go through the bother of assigning and un-assigning roles to a clip every time you wanted the change.

Finally, and most importantly, I was responding to this specific line by Carsten:
” There is nothing in the FCP X timeline that you can’t do because of not having ‘rigid’ tracks but so much more exactly because you don’t have them.”

I was not the one arguing the pro’s or weaknesses of FCPX, I was merely responding to this bit of hyperbole. Of course when I point out that instead of “nothing” there is “something” that X can’t do because of it’s structure we are told that my something doesn’t count because Carsten had decided that it’s not meeting his definition of “real” editing. This bit of circular reasoning is similar to Bill’s continuing observation that:

“And while I do not have equivalent experience with AVID or Premier or Vegas, lots of editors I know and talk with DO – and to a one, those who’ve actually learned to use X at a truly professional level DO NOT want to switch back.”

Which means that Oliver Peters and Steve Connor, according to Bill, have not”actually learned to use X at a professional level” because if they had they would feint at the thought of using any other NLE. So no matter what your actual experience, if you don’t love it you haven’t “learned it.”

Refuting this sort of self-defining circular nonsense is at the heart of my comments.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “We X folk are merely zombies. It’s surprising we can get out of our beds and do useful work without magnetic closets and pattern collision avoiding wardrobes. Yet we struggle on. Shrugging off all attempt to mock us by linking us rhetorically to the clueless and stupid.”

Now you’ve gone and made me feel guilty about my little gibe. I do apologize. Your not like a Scientologist. I might have gone a little overboard there.

Sorry.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf