Herb Sevush
22
COW Coins
20
Premiere Pro Coins
Forum Replies Created
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“But FCPX already has an index, right now. Today.”
I thought you said the effects index was something you could foresee but didn’t exist.
“Have you used it? Is there evidence in the program of those features?”Like I said, dreams are in the eye of the beholder. Have you used your audio sorting yet?
“You can add roles en masse in the browser”
I work a lot on cooking shows. I never know, until I lay it in the timeline whether a piece of audio is dialogue or effects. I then often break up and change parts of the tracks as I refine the edit. How am i going to tag that in the browser.
And how do I look at your trackless timeline (because FCPX has tracks, they are just visually meaningless and inconsistent) and automatically know which track is which:
Say I have 2 audio elements, neither in sync to the video – one is a vo, the other is frying sounds. Later I decide I want to move the vo – with tracks I know, without clicking on anything, exactly which clip is which. How would I know which is which in FCPX – how would roles help me here without my having to click on something?
“You still haven’t used FCPX, right?”
Still haven’t hit myself in the face with a hammer, but I can guess it’s gonna hurt.
“This process of patching the a/v in PPro is convoluted by the way, why do I have to patch it “twice”? Takes longer than it does in FC”
There are many things I don’t like so far about PPro which is why I’m still cutting on FCP7. 2012 awaits.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“With both Apple and Microsoft lining up to guzzle from the tablet trough, it might be that the future of workstation video editing is in the hands of Lightworks on Linux.”
I cannot tell you how happy that would make me. Years ago, when discreet *edit was EOL’d many of the users on the COW forum got together to discuss a way that we, as a group, could buy the code from Autodesk and run it as a subscription co-operative. We had our own web site, got some of the *edit software designers in on it and held some preliminary talks with Autodesk, and then of course they told us to take a hike.
I have been EOL’d too many times, and BOGU’d by too many software vendors not to dream of a Wikipedia of NLE’s. Currently Lightworks is the only contender. I would trade in a lot of features for the ability to work without fear of a vendor holding me hostage yet again.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“The Effects Index is not available, but you could see there’s room for it. Where would that be in CS5.5?”
It doesn’t exist in PPro 5.5 but it might exist in ver 6 which is coming this spring.
The problem with dealing in future possibility’s is that anyone can play that game; the buy in is zero and the skies the limit. I can foresee an incredible future for Lightworks, my personal dark horse favorite in the NLE sweepstakes – trackless and tracked switchable, unlimited multi-cam, auditions – whatever you can dream of, I can dream as well, only it’s free.
But in the mundane world of the now you keep comparing FCPX to the present, which has already past. FCPX’s competition is not Adobe & Avid version 5.5, it’s version 6 of both FCPX will have to match come 2012.
As for roles, at the moment it seems a cumbersome way to try to regain the functionality that tracks currently have. In a tracked program you don’t have to open a menu and assign a role to a clip, all you have to do is edit it into a timeline and the role already exists. Which sounds quicker and more intuitive to you?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“So you are one of the ones simply dumping Apple as a platform too?”
I think Apple is a brilliant consumer hardware company. Application software and business hardware – not as impressed.
My original plan was to upgrade my Mac Pro this year. After this past June’s debacle I delayed that purchase. I am currently investigating every possible NLE option – Mac, PC, Linux – whatever. I will let my software choice determine my hardware platform. If FCPX is the best multi-cam editor out there next March, then I guess I’ll be getting a new MacPro. By all accounts PPro runs much faster on a properly configured PC – if that’s the way to go, then it will be a PC. I have no preference about hardware platforms – they both work fine, it’s the software that interests me.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“I don’t think tracks are problem. I don’t think Apple sees tracks as a problem. “
Apple did see tracks as a problem, and that’s why they got rid of them. And now they have to come up with all sorts of work arounds to replace the functionality they got rid of.
I guess what you meant was that Apple doesn’t see the lack of tracks as a problem. Obviously not. And Adobe is getting a lot richer on that lack of vision.
One year ago PPro had zero presence in the CWE (complex workflow environment), at least in NY and LA. None, nada, zilch. I never heard of a single facility that was even considering using it as the mainstay of their editing work. Now CS5.5 is ALL I’m hearing about. Apple kills color, kills FCP7 and releases FCPX. Adobe buys Iridas and Automatic Duck, lets everyone know they are incorporating as much FCP workflow as possible into their next release, and are basically taking over the Non-Avid side of the business. I’ve never seen anything like this, where a product leader just absolutely abdicates it’s position and hands it’s entire business over to a rival. Amazing.
So yeah, sure, Apple is the company I’m definitely going to follow.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“You don’t see any use for a role based vertically sortable timeline? Meaning for any given primary storyline clips and everything connected to it, if you want your audio to always stack as dialogue, then effects, then music? I can think of some really practical reasons, especially when there’s no tracks.”
Or you could just actually have tracks, which would negate the need for any of this. It’s the perfect FCPX concept -let’s create an editing system so so screwed up that only we have the metadata to fix. Once again FCPX can show it’s brilliance by fixing a problem that no one else has.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
Well at least we have Hayley Mills in common. Preferred The Parent Trap and That Darn Cat to Pollyanna though. And no, I’m not the one to describe your view as Pollyanna-ish.
As for why I come to this forum, it’s where many of us orphans have come to discuss where we shall go next. FCP7 is dead, we all have to migrate. Some will go Adobe & Avid, some might go FCPX, I’m hoping something comes of the Lightworks open source experiment. I’ve already eliminated Edius, Media 100 and Vegas as they are not robust enough for my work flow.
The question some might ask then is why do you come here, since you have already determined that you are not looking anywhere other than FCPX for your future? It would seem the techniques forum would be more up your alley.
But unlike some others, I would never ask that question. I would never tell a Cow poster what to say or where to say it. But that’s just me. I guess it’s because I’m so closed.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
“It may be difficult for you to understand this, but I think about more than one thing when I consider things.”
Nope, doesn’t surprise me at all.
“It’s price is ONE aspect that’s important at some times. Everybody understands that. Everybody.
Particularly, I suspect, in allowing students and other beginning editors access to tools”Most people in video production use Photoshop. Many use After Effects. If you use both PPro is free. So now lets throw in the cost of both Compressor and Motion, which you would need for any sort of professional workflow. Now FCPX is at $400. If you will need any of the other 3rd party apps for things like tape support, or OMF or XML interchange, in the current scheme these will now cost extra. For even a beginning professional, when taking in the cost of all the software that you will actually need to get work done, I don’t think it’s clear that FCPX is cheaper. It will be in some cases, it won’t be in many others.
As for students, Adobes Student price for PPro is 340, for the whole Production Suite it’s 445.
“I suspect that would be more useful than just taking me to task because I bought up the factual reality of a price differential.”
I wasn’t taking you to task for bringing up prices, I was merely surprised that in the middle of a discussion about the specific features that FCPX had vs the rest of the NLE world you suddenly chose to bring up price as the distinguishing feature. I can’t recall you ever mentioning it before in any of your other many postings.
But then I guess you had nothing left to say about the features argument so why not turn a corner? It’s good technique, used it often enough myself.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
Oh, so now the argument for FCPX is that it’s cheaper?
Elsewhere and always you have positioned yourself, and all others trying to learn FCPX, as being open to the new, not hamstrung by the restrictions of the past. I know these are not your exact words, but I think they are fairly representative.
Given that, I’m curious as to why your desire to learn and expand your boundaries ends with Apple. Your thrilled to be trying out and proselytizing for FCPX but seem to have no interest in giving the same consideration to Adobe or Avid. I mean integration with AE and Photoshop is not something to just sneer at, yet it seems the only new program you’re interested in is FCPX.
Just curious.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
After 2 years of development taking another 90 days to add on some absolutely basic features that have been standards around the industry for over a decade is not all that impressive. How long will it take them to add multi-cam and video monitoring, and thereby get to where they should have been to begin with – another 6 months? Good, at this rate they will have caught up to where the competition was a year ago by next year – if they keep up that rate of improvement they will actually become an NLE leader by the time the sun goes Nova.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions