[Herb Sevush]

[Jeremy Garchow] “The building blocks of these features are in FCPX,”

Except this patent was applied for in 2009. It preceded X, not the other way around.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeremy Garchow] “That’s why this forum was created, and it’s why Apple made FCPX so they could patent it. You want a reason why they changed all the terms and conventions? There it is.”

Jeremy, this thread is not about FCPX, but about an un-named piece of software that Apple started patenting in 2009 that seems to have been created specifically for long form work.

https://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1453-apple-s-segmented-timeline-pa...

I’m arguing that FCPX has most of the good features in it already and this other software is not very necessary – what are you arguing?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Walter Soyka] “Overwriting the connected clip into the primary is destructive to the project data; lifting that clip back up out of the primary does not restore the original edit and connection point — and in fact adds a new gap and creates a new connection point.”

In the wider usage of the word, I agree that overwrite edits are destructive, although you under-estimate the importance of being able to “undo” the operation. However, in the particular world of media work, the adjective “destructive” has a more specific meaning – it refers to making changes to files, whether audio or visual, that cannot be reversed and become “baked”into the file. This word is used to distinguish how different operations of the same software effect the underlying media and comes from DAWs and Photoshop primarily. Such and such is a “destructive” effect, such and such is a “non-destructive” effect. It is a very useful distinction, and by throwing around the term “destructive timeline”, which does not really distinguish between anything, one is muddying a very useful descriptive phrase purely for sophistry.

The original conversation was in response to labeling something a “destructive timeline.” Since all timelines, by the necessities of editing, can destroy information, what did it meant to call a given timeline destructive? Creative destruction is one of the basic elements of editing but no experienced editor routinely overwrites edits he doesn’t wish to. If your having a bad day and screw something up you hit undo and there you are, right as rain.

[Walter Soyka] “Worth noting: “destructive” is not the same as “bad” and it’s not the same as “unintentional.””

While destructive doesn’t mean bad, it often has negative implications. In the case of the previous thread, the word “destructive” was being used to imply bad, but hiding under the cover of it’s more descriptive DAW usage.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Have you made a compound clip in FCPX, and then opened that compound clip? That’s how I see this working.”

If you look further up the thread I specifically asked about compound clips. I’m not surprised that they would work well for this purpose – although I might find the absolute length thing a bit of a straight jacket to work in, often I need to expand in order to contract – I’m just questioning the need for this new patented Apple software. If, as you say, X can do all this already – then what’s the big whoop-de-doo – story structure diagrams?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Marcus Moore] “To be fair, I think you could have made the same “what’s missing?” statement about the bins and sub-clips structure in Legacy, until ranged key-wording and Smart Collections came along.”

Yes, but that the point. Key wording and smart collections ARE new. defined templates are not. I will agree that it isn’t a keystroke defined operation. But it’s close. In legacy all my lower thirds, as well as slates, were motion templates. It wasn’t CTRL-D, but it was basically 2 mouse clicks and the blank title was ready to be filled in; all fonts, colors, backgrounds, positioning and animation pre-defined.

What this patented software seemed to be interested in was the setting up of a hierarchy of structure so that you could easily assemble and re-arrange the different parts. Which is why so much of the patent had to do with joining the overlaps between 2 segments.

I think most modern NLE’s have the tools to do this already. This software seemed to be designed for non-editors to be able to restructure a show – a way for the producers to avoid dealing with editors once the scenes were cut.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Marcus Moore] “If when you start a project you have the option to start with a blank page or open a project template where you’ve defined segment lengths, commercial breaks, lower3rd and inter-title styles, broadcast safe parameters… I’d like to see that.”

That’s called a project template. Since most of my work is episodic TV every series has a blank project template that contains the graphic styles, timeline and output styles, and every other standardized feature for the show. You start a new show by duplicating and renaming the template and away you go. If you wanted to include a timeline that had pre-determined commercial break bumpers and slates, no one would stop you. I’ve worked this way in every NLE I’ve used – what’s missing?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

The solution, thank you Adobe and Kevin Monahan, is to upgrade to AME CC 2014. Problem solved.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Marcus Moore] “Pragmatically, any corporate video series, or commercial series, or TV series has repetitious elements. Making those things a known commodity in the structure of an edit- especially if these are things you can customize… that’s interesting.”

Yes, that’s what nests and compound clips are for.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

Alex Gollner“Structure applies to feature films, TV shows, groups of corporate videos on an intranet, legal video depositions, architects’ video proposals or open-ended weekly web series. The more video applications can have these structures encoded in their projects, the better the tools they’ll be able to provide to a wider range of people all over the world.”

I couldn’t possibly disagree with this statement more. Since structure is fluid and dynamic what is required is a system that is totally open and pliable, able to be shaped to whatever structure can be imagined. Encoding structure into a system will inherently limit the structure to those imagined by the encoders.

“A story should have a beginning, a middle and an end, but not necessarily in that order.”
Jean-Luc Godard

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “If you think the stuff in X is all smoke and mirrors, I feel really sorry for you.”

I was just having fun with your little story Bill, I don’t think X is smoke and mirrors.

Your story reminded me of a great producer I worked with for many years. Back in the 80’s, when the web was first taking off, we were pitching work at the big Wall St. investment houses. When asked if he had a website Geof always said yes. I asked him why he said yes when I knew he didn’t have a site. He said the guys we were talking to never went on the web and barely knew what it was, to them having a website was just an indication of cool. “But what if they do go to check out your site?” “I’ll just tell them that its down.” He laughed and, by the way, we got the job. Years later, when it actually made financial sense, he built a site, but I always remember that bit of wisdom. So lets say my little post was just an homage to Geof Drummond.

[Bill Davis] “short spot stuff is about all that’s going to be left for those who edit with a dumb NLE rather than one bolted onto a DAM/Database system. “

All NLE’s are DAM/Database systems. X has keyword collections, which I agree are very powerful and valuable, but the lack of them will not prevent me from efficiently cutting long form on other systems.

[Bill Davis] “You can string out 40 potential shots on a dumb timeline and pick from among them visually, no problem. When you have 400 (or 4000 clips!) flooding in from every direction to manage – things are different. “

My current series has over 2000 clips. I’m not overwhelmed. Feature and documentary editors have been dealing with thousands of clips for decades – there are systems of organization and file naming conventions that make this quite possible. They managed to cut Apocalypse Now without X, I think I can handle a cooking series without it as well.

Also, my timeline is not dumb. Fat and ugly perhaps, but not dumb; and now you’ve hurt her feelings.

[Bill Davis] “Remember, not many years ago, running 10 cameras on a scene was a big, expensive deal. Now *I* can pull 10 cameras together to shoot something with a couple of phone calls and the promise of buying my colleagues lunch. And that’s where we’re going.”

3 years ago I was the one trying to convince you about a future where a 25 camera iPhone sourced documentary had to be taken into account when designing a multicam editor, while you were arguing that 8 angles would be more than sufficient for X, so I do get a little galled with your lecturing to me about the future of multi-camera editing. But only a little.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf