[Guillaume Chadaillac]

I am probably not going to stay with FCP7 for ever… since its dead…
Probably avid.

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Maybe I should have mentioned that I am editing in Prores 422 LT

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Hi guys!
Obviously this thread is a bit old but i m glad i found it!
Finally some people seem to share the same problem that I have! 🙂

I am shooting with a 7d. Encoding in prores LT for editing and color correcting in final cut. I am using a matrox box to do my color correction on a Sony Bravia 47′.

So far so good.

Everything will go on the web, On my personal website which uses jw player in flash and html5.

But I encounter 2 problems:

1) Encoding from prores to h264 using, squeeze, mpegstreamclip, quicktime, yields average results. Colors are not accurate and look washed out. This is not new. The web is plagued with h264 encoding problems but maybe this has to do with a color space problem as well? What do you think? Is there an easy/cunning fix?

2)When videos are online. They obviously look VERY different on all the popular browsers. Firefox and Safari are ok… but chrome … oh my! Mostly supers washed out and merely… off. I made a lot of research with regards to color managed browsers and ICC files… but this seem to only apply to photos … not videos…
Is that right? What can we do during the h264 encoding process that will ensure consistency across browsers?

Thanks a lot guys!!!!

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

I actually happen to have several terrible samsung computer monitors AND a 47′ Sony Bravia HD 1080p. This will do with the Matrox right?

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

So the answer is … yes … or no?
Should I switch back to gamma 1.8 is snow leopard?

Regarding a broadcast monitor: please pardon my ignorance. Since it is going to be only for the web? Does it make sense to watch my videos on a TV? Are TV monitors considered MUCH better than computer screens?

And Yes, I do have an express card slot. But I would like to stay away from this as much as possible because these computers with an Xpress slot are a dying breed, and I am planning to get and actual mac pro which does not have one. I would like of course to be able to use the matrox on all my machines. Is that going to be a problem?

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Thanks you so much guys for all your valuable answers.

Much better than the usual 2 line answer: “you can t do anything without a broadcast monitor…”

Anyway…

1) regarding chrome, I made some research and this browser appears to be the only “non color managed” browser on the web. Non wonder it is super fast… This might explain why this browser is always so far off…

2) Regarding the 2.2 gamma in fcp. I am confused now. I ve read a lot of thread saying that with FCP7 and SL… I should stay in 2.2 gamma. Does is still hold true? Or should I switch to 1.8 to “color correct” in FCP and then revert to 2.2 for “everything else”?

3) I have decided to take a lip of faith: and invest.
Will a matrox box + Dell ultrasharp dramatically improve my setup? (I m on a Mackbookpro)
If I understand well, the FCP canvas will then be displayed on my calibrated Dell at 1.8 gamma and display “true” colors?
Please note that these videos are in NO WAY related to broadcast but will only live on the internet. I just want to make sure that the colors that I see on my screen are acurate.

Thanks so much guys for your participation.

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Thanks Matt,
Yes! it is driving me nuts already.

However I did a test on windows XP, with IE, firefox and Chrome (all in High Profile) and results were sureprinsingly Good!

One more I would like to add:
Chrome is clearly a big looser in my test. And I read somewhere that Chrome does not use the calibration that I did on my screen in order to display videos and pictures. This would explain why it is so far off from the other brothers. Is that true?

And finally: I am using apple prores, converted from my h264 from my canon 7D. Should I be using somehting else that is rgb?

Thanks!

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Ok.
I think I ve made some progress here.
For those who are interested, I compared my Final cut Canvas and my uploaded videos on the internet on 3 different browsers.

My work flow is as follows:
-ProRes in FCP,
-export through quicktime (still prores),
-mp4/h264 with squeeze in either (Base profile CAVLC multipass OR High Profile Cabac multipass).

Ready? Go:

The first pictures below is a comparison of:
-Top right: final cut Canvas
-Bottom right: MP4 high profile read by quicktime
-Top Left: MP4 base profile read by quicktime

The final cut compatibility button is turned OFF.

And with the final cut compatibility turned ON.

This clearly answers my first question : WHEN YOU MAKE AN MP4, ONLY THE HIGH PROFILE (versus base profile) is affected by the quicktime / fcp compatiblity option.

This being said, I can live with that. The mp4 are not that for off from my FCP canvas when the option is ON.

Let’s move on to my videos on my website across different web browsers:

I uploaded the mp4 high profile version:
Below:
Top right: FCP canvas
Top left: Firefox
Bottom right: Chrome
Bottom left: Safari

Chrome is clearly washed out. The other ones are “fine”

Then I uploaded the base profile versions:

Chrome is even more washed out! Safari is extra saturated and Firefox is too warm.

For the record I did the same test with an RGB rendering instead of YUV in final cut… Results are EXACTLY the same.

All this to say that:
-Encoding mp4/h264 is a voodoo science

-Quicktime will react differently depending on base vs high profile for the FCP compatility mode

-Rendering in yuv or rgb does not affect my colors in the end

-Browsers totally freak out with mp4 in base profile.

-Browsers behave nicely with a high profile. Except for chrome which is always washed out.

If Someone would like to share something… PLEASE!

Thanks.

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

Ok,
This is really interesting.
Yes the “FCP enability” in quicktime was turned on.
Top right is final cut.
Top left is prores from final cut in quicktime
Bottom right is an mp4 compressed by squeeze.

When I turned it off, ONLY the prores file in quicktime gets brighter.
The mp4 one does not??? How weird is that?

But again… this, as chocking as it is is the least of my concerns…

Below is what I get in 3 different browsers:
Firefox top left
Chrome to right
Safari bottom left.

AS you can see, here is what is bugging me! What the heck is going on?

To summarize:
1) does anyone have an explanation why turning the FCP compatibility in quicktime only affects the pro res file and not the mp4?
2)Why such discrepancy between browsers? could it be a space color problem? Is is something that I have to tweak in my FCP sequences such as render in rgb,yuv 8bit, yuv 10bit etc???
3) I read that you could embed color spaces in a picture for better browser compatibility. Does mp4 work the same?

Thanks some much for your participation.

G.

[Guillaume Chadaillac]

HI everyone.
So I think that everything “seems” to work.

On the top right picture, this is my FCP canvas
On the top left, this is the exported file (without conversion so it is still apple pro res) read by quicktime
On the bottom right, this is the mp4 file encoded by squeeze, read by quicktime.

I think I can almost live with that.

HOWEVER, I uploaded it on my website which uses jw player… and this looks like a catastrophy of inconsistency…

The top left is safari, the top right is chrome (horrible) and the bottom right is firefox.

Does anyone have an explanation to that? any fix?
Is a color space problem? can I embed that in my mp4?