Greg Leuenberger
Forum Replies Created
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Matt – have you guys taken a look at these switches yet?
https://www.aristanetworks.com/en/7100_Series_10GBASETSwitches
I’m not sure how ‘managed’ this switch is…or how much that even matters at 10GB. These are very similar in design to Sun hardware (Sun is a client of mine) – I noticed Andy Bechtolsheim is head of development (which makes sense, he designed a lot of the Sun hardware).
-Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Agreed…I’m going to wait 6 months and see if there’s any CAT6 10GB switches appearing like Matt said…that seems to be the best solution going forward, PCIe isn’t going anywhere in a hurry so even if I buy new workstations a $1K 10GB card will be portable and useful for a number of years…and my current GB switch is going on 7 years so a 10GB switch will be a good long term investment.
I’ll keep lurking around here in the meantime : )
best,
Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Lol…goodness, settle down there Beavis : )
Filling in the blanks I’m guessing the bottleneck is the switch..since you *should* be able to have 3 computers write files at a couple MB/s a second while 2 others read files at 50 (at most) MB/s on an array capable of 500 MB/s. Even then it seems the switch should be able to handle it (easily) but whatever…
Anyway, yes….reading from shared storage but rendering locally is not a good solution…it’s merely a cheap solution. I’m not looking for cheap (never said I was) I want (as you put it) one damn system that does everything. Fiber adds a layer of complexity to the system I want to avoid…I’ll wait for 10GB Ethernet (you also added an extra zero to your fiber SAN estimates)..for the system I described I’d probably be looking at around $30K for fiber instead of $15K for GB Ethernet..
Regarding editors…yes, I understand where you are coming from. I’m a 38 year 3D guy…and I spend a vast amount of effort staying current with the advancement of 3D software and technology (editing by comparison is child’s play compared to 3D in regards to the vast amount of technical knowledge and software expertise required..no offense to any editors here).
The facts of production are you are often rendering and re-rendering projects at the last minute…having to copy these back over to the shared storage system (which is where the archives come from) is a bad solution. For what it’s worth some “kids” are VASTLY more talented than the older, more technically proficient guys they are replacing (this applies more to graphics)…and if you have ever been in the position of hiring (I get the feeling you haven’t) then you have to factor in talent over knowing what a SAN is and find an IT solution to accommodate your talent until they’re up to speed. The Ethernet solutions are appealing not just because they are cheap, but because they are drop dead easy to have all the various assets of a project (3D..Motion graphics..AE files..audio…PDF scripts..etc.) all in ONE place, available to everybody and easy to archive on just a shared volume sitting on your desktop…easy to adim..I’ve done it myself with PCs and Macs for the last 8 years with zero problems..I do NOT want to manage a Fiber SAN. That to me is a much more compelling reason to buy Ethernet over Fiber than saving a few bucks (and it’s really not that much).
FWIW, most of the production houses I work with that primarily do editing have their graphics guys off in a corner working locally…my place is the opposite (mostly 3D and Motion Graphics) with 2 edit stations for finishing..I need one data repository and it has to be easy.
thanks for the info…I guess I’ll wait for 10GB Ethernet…
-Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Thanks a lot for the info guys…hmmm, quick follow up. Do you recommend rendering locally and copying back to the array even if we’re talking about a fiber array? What is it about rendering that screws up the flow of data?…when you render a sequence you’re writing data far slower than if you were reading live streams…so does it have something to do with the array being unable to write a rendered file while other users are reading off of it? Just seems a little strange.
I’ll have to do a little more research…I do like ProRes HQ…it’s the converting the final renders to h264’s and flv’s that I’ve had issues with (they’re pretty well documented..I just need to take another look at it).
Man…I just want one storage ‘hub’ for all my projects..3D and editing…as soon as editors start saving stuff locally and copying assets back and forth the projects start getting screwy..and a lot of editors aren’t exactly organized (stop saving all the shit to the desktop, we have project directories for a reason!)
Anyway, thanks for your help.
best,
Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Hi Bob, I’ve been lurking around checking these threads out for a while. Couple quick questions:
* Do you just use one GigE port from the Switch to each Mac Pro Workstation? If so is it dedicated? (in other words use the Mac Pro’s other GigE port to go to the switch you use for other network activity, email, etc…) Or do you just run everything through the one switch?
* I noticed the EVO 4K is a 16 bay chassis…are you saying there’s a 12 bay available?
* I have a 4 Core Xserve acting as a file server right now (3 drive raid 5 with the built in apple raid card). Can I use the Raid card instead of the ATTO R380? If not I’m guessing I can put the R380 in the XServe and the PEG6 in the two open PCI X8 slots..(it’s the previous gen. XServe so 2 x8 PCIe slots…not x16)
I’m sick of direct attached storage…I use the Xserve to serve 3D projects and compositing files to my workstations and renderfarm and it’s beautiful. I hate how projects get scattered as soon as I go local storage for editing.
I’m a little hesitant about ProRes HQ…I’ve had issues (gamma shifting, artifacts..) when converting to h264 and flv…and my clients ALWAYS want those formats…for review and delivery. So I need to investigate that a little further.
A typical scenario would be to have 2 edit stations, a couple render machines and maybe 1 or 2 3D machines (not a lot of bandwidth, but having to save some large 150+MB files every half hour or so) on the shared storage at once (the render machines would be loading 150+MB files..but only saving 5MB images every 5 min or so.
Lastly….let’s say an affordable 10Gig Switch comes out in two years (fantasy..I know) can I just drop in a 10GB PEG 6, 10GIG cards in the Macs and the new switch and be in business? I always thought I would wait until 10GigE was available (and that it would be available in 2009…..looks like somebody put the brakes on it…) – but I’m sick of waiting.
best,
Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Yeah, I would normally go that route except my RAID is going to be a hair under what’s capable for uncompressed 1080…so I think I’ll just switch the Kona over to the 8-Core (or stripe across 2 raids…that would probably give me enough bandwidth for 1080 uncompressed)
-Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Thanks Gary, I guess I’ll be hooking up the 8 Core then…
-Greg
Greg Leuenberger
CEO
Sabertooth Productions, Inc.
http://www.sabpro.com -
Prepare to continue to be disappointed if you think Leopard is going to have your Apps make use of the extra processors. It won’t. What it will do is provide a means for the next iteration of Apps to scale much better with multiple cores. But the onus is still on the devs to do that. The best mutli-processing App at the moment (IMO) is Modo (the 3D App). It will scale pretty much linearly while rendering with up to 16 local cores.
Unfortunately 64-bit procs have been with us for many years and we are just now getting 64-bit OS’s (Vista, Leopard). It’s going to be another long wait before Apps are truely capable of taking advantage of all of your cores. By that time we’ll have 16 or 32 core machines.
-Greg
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I recommend you DO NOT rush out and bug a Mac Pro unless you absolutely need one in the next month or 2. Harpertown will be available in less than a month and a new cycle of Mac Pro’s (with new video cards(!!!!)) will be out soon. So unless you want to buy a computer that is approaching 2 years old I would wait on it.
What you may want to do is buy a copy of Tiger if you’re worried about it.
-Greg
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wow..i complain a lot (just noticed I complained about the same thing a couple posts down last week)
-G