[Erik Davis]

Tim,

As I’m learning more it does seem pretty straightforward. That is until last night when I found out that Matrox Axio LE will not output an “edge cropped” HD timeline to SD video in real time. Matrox claims simulataneous HD and SD output but what they don’t mention is that the HD downconvert choices of “letterbox” or “anamorphic” really add up to either a letterboxed SD video or a squished/stretched SD video. You can have either of those in real time without any rendering. If you want to have a center cut output though you better start applying zoom/scale/crop filters and see if you can get a clean image. Not likely.

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Tim,

The simplicity of your answer caused me to pause a bit and then I got sidetracked on a few other things so my apologies to you for the late response. Just to clarify, when you say downconvert the HD Master to SD, I take that as you meaning export a 720x SD clip of the entire timeline and then playback that clip on another timeline for printing to tape. Does that sound correct?

Just whenever you get the chance.

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Ron,

Here is the update on the .aaf file tests I have been working on and sorry for the delay. It seems anything I try has the same results when importing into PPro. To recap here are the failed approaches so far.

1. Edit cuts only 720×480 DV video MXF proxies in Sony Vegas 8.0. Conform timeline using “trim when possible”. Export .aaf file of timeline and then import into 720×480 NTSC DV CS3 Premiere Pro. Files and sequence import but if you try to playback the clips or open the sequence, PPro crashes without any specific error.

2. Same as step one only when conforming I do not check “trim when possible”. Exact same results.

3. Import full res 720×480 DV video MXF clips into Vegas editing a cuts only timeline. Export .aaf file from timeline. Import into 720×480 NTSC DV CS3 Premiere Pro. Can see all clips and sequence but with the same results. Try playing back a clip or opening the sequence and PPro crashes without specific error.

4. Edit full res (never conformed) 1440×1080 XDCam HD video in Sony Vegas 8.0. Export .aaf file from timeline. Import .aaf file into 1440×1080 HD project inside Premiere Pro. Clips and sequence will import but if you try to playback clips or open sequence PPro crashes without specific error.

At this point I don’t have any other ideas. I would guess that it is not possible to import .aaf files from Vegas Pro into PPro using MXF files even if they are full res only and never conformed at any point.

I am still very interested to hear from your friend who is able to import back and forth using .aaf files between Vegas and PPro. What versions of the software is he using, project settings,types of video clips, workflow and any conforming from proxies to full res.

Bottom line at this point though is it just doesn’t work.

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Ron,

The XDCAM SD files are all 720×480 DVCam codec so they should match perfectly well with the 720×480 PPro Project file. I don’t think that is an issue. I had some other technical problems unrelated to this matter that has prevented me from doing the test we talked about yesterday so I will try to get to that later tonight. (Here I am 8 hours ahead of the US)

Erik

[Erik Davis]

is it possible that the AAF export from Vegas is delivering the proxies rather than the full res files?

Ron, I’m pretty sure that PPro is importing the full res files because when Vegas conforms the proxies it creates another file name for the conformed file. This can be seen in properties and in the project window of Vegas. When I import the clips into PPro, the clips do have the correct “new name” from Vegas.

Will these files imported into PPro/Axio play with anything else?

I assume you mean to navigate to the PPro file containing the imported media and then trying to play that file with some program that plays .mxf files? Like what though? Try re-importing those files back into Vegas and see if they will play?

What are their poperties? Have you tried a test editing the full res XDCAM files in Vegas and then trying the AAF to PPro?

No, but I will try this tomorrow and report back what happens. Of course, that workflow would defeat the purpose of working with proxies though I guess?

This is the blind leading the blind, but once I get a few answers, I’ll talk to a fellow who does this all the time and try to pin point where this is falling down.

You know someone who is using this worflow successfully already? If so, I can’t wait to hear more. Ron, thanks for helping out. Take care.

Erik Davis

[Erik Davis]

Gary,

Just wanted to let you know that I was wrong in what I told you before. Actually I can get 2 tracks of SD Video both with 50% opacity to play at 29.97. I think I was confusing it with the HD tests I had done earlier where I was getting like 12.97 on XDCAM HD playback. So, at least that part of the issue is not an issue.

Regards,

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Tim,

I will try to make it more clear. These are possible workflow scenarios that I am trying to see if they are possible. All of this is based on theories running around in my head as I have never done any of the approaches listed below. Think of this as me thinking out loud to find problems with my workflows.

Workflow 1 for creating both HD and SD Masters

Create 1920×1080 59.97 HD Project
SD VIDEO used in program would need uprezing.
HD VIDEO used in program would be native.

ALL COMPOSITES done in Combustion, AE, etc. would need to be rendered twice. Once with uprezed SD and once with native SD.

ALL TEXT TIMELINE GRAPHICS would need to be built twice. Once for HD graphics and once for SD.

HD MASTER
Directly from timeline.

SD MASTER
Option A) Directly from timeline also using Axio BOB but realizing that SD uprezed video would suffer.

Option B) Import (or nest?) the entire project/sequence (NOT A RENDERED FILE OUTPUT) into a new 720×480 project and rebuild/relink SD portions with original SD footage. (I could do this by keeping a muted video track within the HD timeline that would be soley for the purpose of matching the uprezed SD video used in the timeline with the original SD video)

Then print to tape from that timeline.

Workflow 2 for creating both HD and SD Masters

Create 720×480 29.97 SD Project

SD VIDEO used in program would need native.
HD VIDEO would be down-converted in real-time to timeline when imported. (This is my understanding of how PPro with Axio LE would handle this.)

ALL COMPOSITES done in Combustion, AE, etc. would need to be rendered twice. Once for native SD (SD Master) and once for uprezed SD to go into HD master.
ALL TEXT TIMELINE GRAPHICS would need to be built twice. Once for SD graphics and once for HD graphics.

SD MASTER
Directly from timeline.

HD MASTER
Import entire project/sequence into a new 1920×1080 project (NOT A RENDERED FILE OUTPUT) and uprez SD video portions. HD video should import natively.

Then output directly from timeline.

This is where my head is now and hopefully someone will tell me a much easier way to get this type of work done now that I have spelled things out a little more clearly as to what I hope to achieve. Is anyone out there in a similar boat?

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Tim,

I had mentioned that I have to produce a HD master and a SD master of the same program. This will be the standard workflow for me for sometime so I’m trying to get my brain wrapped around it. Maybe I should try to create the SD master first completely and then import into HD project. About 50% of the video clips will be 1080i XDCAM HD. Most of the rest will be 720×480 DV but coming from XDCAM discs not from DVCAM Tape.

Erik

[Erik Davis]

Oops, ok, I see. You actually click on the # to get safe title to toggle. Missed that one. Thanks again.

[Erik Davis]

Gary,

I’ll admit that I am not prepared yet to defend one software over the other as I am trying to learn both of them right now but I have a Matrox Axio LE system and it seems like a waste not to use that power that is only made available with Premiere Pro. For me its not about the titlers or even the effects but realtime full resolution playback of what I am editing without having to render.

I noticed that even when I load a 720×486 SD file into Vegas it can’t play it back at 29.97. This is just a single file with no effects. What happens when you add a little HD layer or two to that??

Frankly, I would prefer to stay in Vegas I think as the software seems more stable than PPro which seems very much to be on the edge when it comes to stability.

Again, though, it’s to early for me to make any final judgements as I am just getting started.