Dennis Radeke
Forum Replies Created
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“You don’t really “get the same performance” editing native R3Ds. I can’t STAND editing when playback goes all blurry like Adobe has demo’d.
I don’t know of an editor worth their salt that “doesn’t mind” blurry playback and good quality on the freeze. It throws me out of my pacing. Do you?”
If by performance you mean 24 or 30 fps, then the answer is yes, you do get the same performance.
If you mean by clarity of image, then consider this. With 2K material at quarter resolution, you’re getting 500 lines of resolution, better than SD. With 4k material at eighth resolution, you’re getting 500 lines too.
Of course, I’m stating the obvious in saying that if you want to adopt a workflow with the RED proxies in Premiere Pro, we’ve been able to do that for some time.
In the end its a choice for the user and neither one is wrong. However, CS5 with 64-bit native, with GPU and with fractional playback gives the user more choice within the NLE and within any given workflow. That’s what Adobe is really focused on – delivering good solutions that can work by themselves OR with FCP and AVID.
Be well.
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Hi Illya,
I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make which was that FCP wasn’t the only company doing decent RED integration/work.
Let me also clarify a couple of other bits from your response.
“I was editing proxies in realtime almost 3 years ago with FCP. That’s what the M and P proxies are for.”
Yes I know, but with Premiere Pro and others, you’re able to use the original R3D media all the time on any system including laptops. Why use proxies when you can always use the original media and get the same performance? 😉
You can import look presets based on the metadata and apply them if you use the log and transfer workflow.Yes, but are they non-destructive – are they burned into the pixels? Can they be applied to clips after they’ve been logged and transferred? I don’t know the answer to these questions for FCP, but I do for Premiere Pro.
Color has full access to the metadata via the RED Tab in the primary room. How often do you need to change kelvin on the fly within your NLE anyways?
That’s great and clearly Adobe does not have a deep grading tool like Color inside of it’s NLE.
Philip’s post is a nice one – thanks for the link.
The second link is also very nice but obviously written prior to the shipping of CS5. I am the ‘Dennis’ mentioned in the article 😉 and my usual RED demo for CS5 is on a laptop. It works just fine.
Your implied asperity that to do what Adobe does costs an arm and a leg is misleading and also misses the point. Adobe is the first company to have a 64-bit native (cocoa) non-linear application on the Mac and we’re the first and only company that allows creative artists to harness their GPU to enable workflows that were either difficult or impossible before. That’s good news for users. Competition is good and if one tool isn’t doing it for you, then there are others.
Again, my point here was to mention that there are lots of choices and that specifically with RED workflows, there are a number of good ones. Finally, in today’s content creation, most people are using any number of suites (Apple, Adobe, etc.) to create content and so it’s important to remember that the best opportunities are for enabling users to seamlessly move media back and forth between their applications. With things like XML and AAF, users have something that approaches easy.
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“Hmmm…since RED is pretty heavily in bed with Apple in terms of workflow…since Avid doesn’t have a clear path, nor does Adobe…this wouldn’t make sense.”
Well, I would respectfully disagree. REDuser.net has forums that talk about several workflows including Adobe and Avid.
Adobe supports native R3D files, fractional resolution playback and integrates source settings from the RED SDK such as kelvin, RGB, ISO, exposure, etc. FCP does none of these things. Premiere Pro CS5 can play back a RED 4k native file on my laptop in real-time. Granted it’s probably at 1/8th resolution, but with 4k material, it still is great for making edits. Think of it – real-time proxies with the original media – no waiting! Sony Vegas does most or all of the same as well. I can’t speak for Avid, but I know they have some level of RED support as well.
Point being that I don’t think it reasonable to make an assumption that RED only works with FCP – far from it.
Back to the topic at hand – I believe FCP will continue to be a pro product.
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I have six cores CPUs on the PC side already and have to say they are sweet. It will be nice to have them on the Mac side as well.
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Premiere is more akin to FCP than Avid is. Premiere Pro also has FCP 7.0 keyboard shortcuts. As far as tutorials, Adobe has so many that a simple google will show you lots of places including the Cow. Another one to look at is Adobe TV.
That said, it matters where the jobs are. It’s probably a good idea to be familiar with all three.
Dennis
Adobe guy -
Another approach if you have Production Premium is to use the Adobe Media Encoder. This would give you many more encoding options.
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In addition to checking for the latest version of Automatic Duck to see if it addresses your problems, you could also try going through Premiere Pro depending on what your edit is like.
You can export FCP XML and import it into Premiere Pro. Save your Premiere Pro project and import it into After Effects or simply select all and in Premiere Pro CS4 and greater, right click and choose ‘replace with After Effects composition’
Let me know if you have any questions on this approach.
Dennis
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“Sure, Adobe can edit it, but it gets sluggish as hell after a while.”
Well, not really. I would encourage interested people to try it on CS5. With 64-bit native on the Mac and using all of your CPU cores (at around 70% or better), the AVCHD editing experience is not really an issue anymore. This week at an event, I played 3 streams of AVCHD with effects + an XDCAM EX clip on a laptop (PC) at full res with no problems.
I think the only real remaining issue is one of scrubbing – that can still be problematic to some, but understandable once you grasp what a temporal codec is and what a computer has to do to decode while scrubbing.
Hope this helps,
Dennis -
They can get MacDrive and read your drives no problem.
Shane is right about FCP HDV – it’s only if you have FCP.
Shane and I may respectfully disagree about needing the ProRes decoder. We chatted on it once before and it’s unclear, but my belief is that the ProRes decoder is in later versions of Quicktime 7 for PC.My suggestion is to convert the material to ProRes and give it to your client that way. Premiere Pro can playback ProRes material in CS3 and above (Mac or PC). With the latest version of CS5, the performance on ProRes should be very good.
Hope this helps,
Dennis – The Adobe guy
https://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/ -
A lot depends on which version of Premiere Pro your client is using. Premiere Pro can play back ProRes but we don’t have any presets made for it. However, the user can make his own by going to a ‘desktop’ edit mode inside of Premiere Pro.
If he can’t play back ProRes with QT Pro 7 (latest version), I’m not sure what’s the problem. There is a ProRes codecs pack that you can download, but my understanding is that it is already included in later versions of QT.
Hope this helps,
Dennis