[David Johnson]

Although I’ve used the version of FreeForm that the DigiEffects plugin is derived from, I haven’t used the DigiEffects version, but can still tell you this …

As with most plugins that allow 3D mesh warping in AE, the FreeForm I’ve used was fairly render intensive. At the same time, I’m not sure I’d qualify a render that’s 15 hours without even having that type of plugin in use as “normal” (although it certainly can be in some cases). So, without knowing how complex and big your project is, what format(s) and codec(s) your working with, how powerful your machine is, etc., etc., it’ll be impossible for anyone to help you.

That includes DigiEffects support, which might be a better place to start … unless something has changed in the past year or so, they’re among the most customer-friendly of the many AE plugin developers.

[David Johnson]

If you’re talking about the shot where a guy lights a match that illuminates the frame, that doesn’t look like a post effect (other than one possible composite since it’s doubtful the real Satan is a SAG member, although I’ve known a few with very similar qualities). It’s hard to be sure without being able to frame through, but it seems more likely that was done with precise shooting, lighting and timing, although probably enhanced in post.

[David Johnson]

I just stumbled on this thread so I know I’m way late, but I thought it worth mentioning one thing in response to the part about “any sort of code of ethics”. It’s very important to understand that, in this context, you’ll always be dealing with privileged information that is not yet public and often never will be. So, the things you hear in depos are absolutely not to be discussed with co-workers, friends, girlfriends, wives, etc. (who always have the potential of becoming a disgruntled ex-). You’ll also need to be far more cognizant of what you do with tapes, digital files, etc. after they’ve served their purpose than in any other context of video work … there was no YouTube when I was doing legal video and it’s a scary thought considering some of the things I saw/heard. As Mark said, you do not want to deal with P.O.’d lawyers.

Also very much like Mark described, I was lucky enough to get in on the ground floor of this niche and did a lot of legal video work just after college. For me, depos were more a lead-in to more lucrative “day-in-the-life” and “mediation summary” documentary style videos contracted for high-dollar cases. I’ve been away from any of that for a long time so I’m not sure how strong the market is now, but it may be worth aiming beyond just depos.

[David Johnson]

Bob,
I haven’t done any speed comparisons with the similar options like YouSendIt, but https://www.filedropper.com offers a 5Gb limit rather than the 2Gb limit at YouSendIt and most similar sites I’ve seen.

[David Johnson]

By the way, Alex, I sincerely apologize if you feel that I misinterpreted your comments or took them out of context … just seems the conversation is relevant to the questions posed here.

[David Johnson]

Don,

I was just going to recommend the same thread that Scott Sheriff did … there are also other good ones in that forum that are relevant to this subject (which is one I think about too at only 42).

Others who’ve responded already made very good points such as Alan Lloyd’s “the difference between being an operator and an editor”. At the same time, it also seems important to consider a point I tried to make in one of those other threads in a slightly different context … how often do paying clients know or care about the difference between an operator and an editor when it comes time to pay the bill? In other words, “are old[er] editors employable”? In my opinion, absolutely (due to the first point). Will we find it increasingly difficult to compete with younger guys who are able/wiling to work for half our rates? Especially in an environment where everyone has significantly tightened their belts? In my opinion, absolutely (due to the second point).

Obviously not an easy subject, but I for one am glad to see others both thinking about and talking about it.

[David Johnson]

I too try my best to primarily adjust iris as needed rather than base lighting too much on complexion. As others have pointed out, the biggest challenge is proper contrast so perhaps focus on controlling that rather than worrying too much about the lighting instruments, etc.

Todd Terry said very well that “More than skin, I worry more about wardrobe”.

Seems the point is there’s far more control over the latter. Most of my shoots are in a business context of some sort so the subjects are often wearing suits. I almost always recommend they wear a colored shirt instead of a white one, but definitely make a point to do that if they have a particularly dark complexion.

I know you said you “don’t know or control what he’ll be wearing”, but beyond the techniques others have mentioned, that’s the area where you can most influence the shot so perhaps try to stress the importance to the subject.

[David Johnson]

You’re quite welcome, Hunter, and I’m very glad that you found my input helpful. And, it’s not a one-way street … being younger doesn’t mean I and others don’t also learn from your perspectives.

Hunter Hempen “So in turn, I am told by other, perhaps younger (no offense), professors that there IS a “demand” out there…is my generation simply more optimistic, or blind to reality?”

Maybe neither … you generation just lives in a somewhat different world than people of significantly different generations so your perspective and reality are somewhat different too. Perhaps when two perspectives seem opposites on the surface, one doesn’t necessarily have to be “right” and the other “wrong” … seems to me both your professors have very valid points.

Hunter Hempen “Now to find out what to do with my life.”
Obviously, only you can answer that so perhaps find the balance of the two perspectives that works for you … maybe you’re a person who will only be happy doing something where you’re practically guaranteed a particular minimum income level or maybe you’re a person who will be equally happy doing something you enjoy even if you might have to struggle to make a living … again, only you can figure that out.

It’s unfortunate that some interpreted my comments as “doom and gloom”, but more importantly, I hope you didn’t get that impression. Risks of discussing complex subjects in writing rather than verbally are easy and frequent misunderstandings. So, in case this wasn’t evident from any one phrase out of a larger point, I love what I do, as do most people I know in the production world. At the same time, I would consider it irresponsible of me to convince someone just entering the field that the number and quality of opportunities in the industry at large seems to be on a trend of increase. It’s important to consider both the pros and cons when evaluating anything and the cons are typically less obvious and, thus, at least equally important to discuss/consider.

It also seems to me that the whole point of your question was to gather various viewpoints to consider … I agree that’s a good approach. Again, my belief is that neither of your two professors is necessarily wrong. Are there good opportunities out there? Absolutely … I’ve found some so I know with certainty that there are. Are the quality and amount of them increasing or decreasing? Personally, I’d have a hard time arguing that either the quality or amount is increasing relative to the decades over which I’ve observed the trends. I just haven’t seen much of that happening, but then again, just because I haven’t witnessed it doesn’t mean it couldn’t possibly be happening somewhere or to some degree.

All in all, I’d recommend against letting any one thing I or any other single person says sway you … perhaps consider that, for example, when one publishes research, there’s good reason why citing more than one source is typically a requirement. Best of luck!

[David Johnson]

Hunter,

First, I must say that only after seeing all those posts with my name did I realize that I should’ve thought through more the idea of copying over all those posts and started a new thread instead of taking over yours … my sincere apologies.

In any case, as you’ll probably gather if you decide to look through those posts, a recurring theme of the conversation between Alex and I is that the business we’re in today is very different in many ways from the one we got into … that’s what I wanted you to see.

Part of what I mean by that is, in regards to “how the video editing industry is doing at the moment?”, my opinion is that, although there are always exceptions, overall, it isn’t doing very well at all. You may notice the references to painfully low salaries, etc.

At the same time, considering the U.S. economy’s direction in recent years, some may argue that the “at the moment” is the most important part of your question … in other words, that things will turn around significantly when the rest of the economy does. Although that’s a valid argument, I’m not sure I buy it and here’s why …

If you read through some of those posts and other recent threads, you’ll see various people who’ve been in the business for some time refer to things like the current “ease of entry” and the elimination of “barriers of entry”. What those generally refer to is the main drawback to otherwise very beneficial technology advances. What I mean is, for example, when I first got into the business, professional-level video required a $100k camera and several $100k tape decks … there were no cheap alternatives. Now, anyone can make video with a $2k camera and a $2k computer and there’s nothing stopping anyone from calling anything “professional-level”. Are the results the same when the tools are in the hands of hobbyists and amateurs? Of course not, but the problem is that the people contracting the work often don’t know or care about the differences or consider them worth paying for. All too often, the standard has become “good enough”, rather than good. So, the value of both the work itself and the people who do it has dropped dramatically and, to me, it’s hard to believe that will change.

I’m sure others will chime in with arguments like it’s not about the tools, but the craft and the skills of the people doing it, which I couldn’t agree more with. The only problem with that argument is that it’s only ever made, understood and accepted by the people who do the work, not the people who pay for it. In other words, it’s increasingly common for client types to have the perspective that they can buy a $500 camera at WalMart and make 100 videos for a fraction of what they use to pay for one … and they do exactly that with increasing frequency as technology improves and the prices of “good enough” technology go down.

Those are the kinds of things your professors mean when they say “the industry is dead and dying”. However, as I said before, I still believe there will always be room for talented, driven people so I’m not mentioning that I somewhat agree with that sentiment to discourage you … only because I think it’s important to consider all angles when making an important decision.

My opinion is that your professor who suggests making your skill set as wide and deep as possible is exactly right … being just a top-notch editor doesn’t cut it anymore (forgive the pun ;~). For example, when I got into the business, it was much more common for producer, director, shooter, editor, mograph designer, grader, etc., etc. to be separate jobs done by different people and that was true at every level of the industry … now, only at the highest ends of the business does that structure still exist and, even there, you rarely find people who don’t wear at least several of those hats.

I hope you find my input helpful and I wish you all the best.

[David Johnson]

Re: off-topic
by David Johnson on Aug 21, 2010 at 1:24:54 pm

[Alex Udell] “waaaaaaayyyyy off topic here so…why don’t we continue this chat in in a fresh thread”

Agreed. In fact, I hope you don’t mind that I took quite a liberty to accomplish that as well as something else at the same time …

A few young guys starting out in the business have posed questions in the Business & Marketing forum that relate to our “tangents” and they’ve lead to what I think are some interesting ongoing discussions. It seems it would be helpful for them to see a related conversation between two people who’ve been in the business a while so I took the liberty of copying over your last two post so we could continue there and also see what others are thinking on the subject.

I really hope you don’t mind that i didn’t ask first … I’ve been spending way too much time in the forums lately so it seemed combining two related conversations couldn’t hurt.

By the way, I must say that being able to “edit without even having to think about it” is something I miss very much. I know this is slightly different context than you were referring to but, in today’s production world of a zillion formats, codecs, software options, hardware options, etc., etc., I find myself (and see others) so overwhelmed by the mechanics that there’s no time left to focus on the craft … seems to defeat the whole purpose of getting in the business in the first place.