[Craig Alan]

[Oliver Peters] “I think Apple’s engineers would argue the + or – of a specific color is more intuitive than the color wheel model. “

Both and not either or. + – would be more intuitive if lowering the puck in the green area just decreased green saturation. But your image turns redder. Therefore its more intuitive to use both – and the color space gradually shifting to red.

This whole make it more intuitive approach is for beginners that can used as you get more advanced. But since every other program uses the color wheel and for good reason, this simpler GUI should include the complimentary relationship between the colors.

In the two programs I have used for color correction – and I’m not on your level – Aperture and FCP 7 (3 way color corrector) – there was a window that contained way more than one adjustable color variable. I do not think it would be hard for FCP X to toggle on a color correction layout that gave you several of the components they are offering.

I think that could be the next huge step forward for FCP X – using an old concept of theirs – spaces. Not just little animation windows connected to the timeline or small sections of the inspector, but the entire screen dedicated to a particular operation of the program – be it color correction or audio editing. I know different topic.

That said, I agree with everything you said and I am using X’s color correction boards without much difficulty. Once you get used to moving the puck into the color you want to adjust it works pretty well. Once you bring up the scopes adjusting exposure works well and the consistency of always using highlights, shadows, mid-tones, global works well. What I’m expecting from FCP X and Apple, and maybe this is an unfair expectation, is that by learning the program you learn the basic concepts behind its use and in so doing are also more prepared to use a higher end program along side it.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Oliver Peters] “I think Apple’s engineers would argue the + or – of a specific color is more intuitive than the color wheel model. “

Both and not either or. + – would be more intuitive if lowering the puck in the green area just decreased green saturation. But your image turns redder. Therefore its more intuitive to use both – and the color space gradually shifting to red.

This whole make it more intuitive approach is for beginners that can used as you get more advanced. But since every other program uses the color wheel and for good reason, this simpler GUI should include the complimentary relationship between the colors.

In the two programs I have used for color correction – and I’m not on your level – Aperture and FCP 7 (3 way color corrector) – there was a window that contained way more than one adjustable color variable. I do not think it would be hard for FCP X to toggle on a color correction layout that gave you several of the components they are offering.

I think that could be the next huge step forward for FCP X – using an old concept of theirs – spaces. Not just little animation windows connected to the timeline or small sections of the inspector, but the entire screen dedicated to a particular operation of the program – be it color correction or audio editing. I know different topic.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

I ran all the past year with hundreds of these bundles on 7 computers. Not one failed. However, if you have mission critical stuff, they are no more reliable than any drive. You need a back up strategy. One advantage to bundles is you can back them up and have all your assists in them, including libraries and media folders outside the library. By the way the same logic applies to raids. We use Raid 0 which is the highest risk but the most storage and the fastest. For important projects we back up.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Herb Sevush] “That’s not story structure, which is what the software that started this thread was concerned with”

“I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure.”

Oh I thought you were referring to FCP X’s whole emphasis on using metadata as a way to organize and build a story line. Not the original post which is a feature that has not been put into X.

Well it seems you could live without either.

But getting back to your example: shot C1514R_213 already comes embedded with metadata from the Ki Pro. Other important notes are passed in with a notebook. No advantage to have these in the NLE? Which take the director liked (favorite the clip and now you can sort the clips without turning to the notebook). Or even just typing in C1514R_213 in the search field rather than scrolling through 213 shots? Or let me just sort all the director’s picks and then sort them by angle or subject?

Sounds like your show is a well oiled machine. But I think FCP X has done a good job or allowing you to collect and organize existing and new organizational metadata as needed.

Off Topic: I’ve been using a Ki Pro now for the last 5 years or so and its been a really useful device in production and post. The first time we shot all week using 3 Pana 170 P2 cams – 1 out the three cams we were using recorded in a frame rate and codec that FCP X could not read. I think it was set to 720 30P instead of 720 60P. In any case, I put the card back into the cam and recorded to the Ki Pro SDI out the cam. Worked perfectly though was no longer broken into clips. It also bypasses HDV compression giving new life to some of those cams. And a lot of the new Macs won’t recognize Canon firewire cams. But these cams have a form of component out. Ki Pro again. Rock solid and great customer support. The audio is good on the Ki Pros too though I wish there was better monitoring.

Thank’s so much, Herb, for your feedback. Appreciate it.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Tim Wilson] “But analogy is a good word too….”

And appropriate if given at least partly for the sake of a logical argument.

It’s like the tail wagging the dog.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Oliver Peters] “I think the objective was always to make things easier and more intuitive. “

Spot on. And sometimes that’s genius because the complexity was counterproductive to begin with and sometimes you are throwing out the baby. The color boards are ok but it certainly easier to understand if the complementary opposite color is in the opposing direction as the color you starting with. Below green should be red not the same color green. You are not just decreasing green saturation. It gets harder to imagine what’s happening when you have to open up a 2-4 color correction windows to complete your correction as opposed to seeing all the color wheels/or rectangles you need in the same window. Sometimes what is needed to make it more “intuitive” is to educate people so they don’t feel its over their head.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Herb Sevush] “The latter. I don’t use FCPX, I’m aware of it’s features and would think that compound clips for each segment, joined together on a master timeline, would make restructuring super easy. I am saying that any NLE I’ve worked with can handle this sort of workflow. I don’t get the need for editing software that specializes in structure”

Ahhh. Got it. This is of interest to me.

So you feel that the glut of media that is taking place now, even compared to just a few years ago, can already be well managed/organized by any of the NLEs?

Isn’t the first thing you do after production wraps or even before, is go through your clips (you meaning you and all the editors and assistants that work with you) and sort them out and label them in some form or other. You don’t see any steps forward in how FCP manages this process? You do not find it helpful, as one of a ton of features like this, that now you can tag clips in the finder and its imported as a keyword collection?

I would say FCP X specializes in metadata and organization rather than structure. Or is that what you mean by structure? I think its structure is still in early stages of development.

One feature I used in FCP legacy, for example, that really needs to be there is to make custom layouts of the program that you can easily toggle between. Color correction – keyboard shortcut: scopes open, my viewer a certain size, the inspector open and on the visual tab, the browser and library windows closed, the audio meters closed, the effects browser open. Now I have to open and close all this stuff and resize it and its tedious.

To me that’s kinda of a structural thing. Ergonomics.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Herb Sevush] “Why would an editor need that software to do the restructuring. It’s easy enough to move sections around with any existing NLE.”

Herb what you said was:

This software seemed to be designed for non-editors to be able to restructure a show – a way for the producers to avoid dealing with editors once the scenes were cut.

They wouldn’t need any given NLE. Hell they edited movies before there were computers. But unless the templates were applied from a list, you would need someone to create them and then someone to use them.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Herb Sevush] “Craig, I’m guessing your asking me this question. AS a suggestion, on this forum, especially with long threads, its advisable to refer to a name, or quote the original post so we know who you are referring to.

In any case if this is a response to my post then the answer is I create the templates as part of my job as post supervisor. “

Yeah Sorry bout that. Since mine was a reply to yours and I mentioned template…but the way its displayed it is not obvious.

Thanks so much for your response. I wish we’d talk more about workflow and the craft of editing. There seems to be this new mantra that the broadcast/major film editors are such a small niche and that their needs are so rarified that why would anyone pay attention. But I think their practices were developed from years of trial and error and input from highly skilled creative people. I worked in broadcast as a writer and did get called into the edit bays by a director or producer. The editors would create “auditions” that were suggested so fast that I learned nothing of how they did them but did process some of the workflow.

Getting back to the discussion – this is what I remember. That someone, in this case you, would create the template. So pretty much after the test shows and the pilot, the pattern would be in place. This also mirrored the script writing in which you needed to write x number of pages with specific breaks for commercials. They called it an act structure but it was not for creative purpose.

Anyway, you’re finding that compound clips in FCP X can provide everything that is needed in terms of this template that you hand off to your team of editors? Is your production team all in with FCP X? Or are you saying, “every NLE can create these and in FCP X its done with compounds? What more would you need?”

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

But aren’t breaks at set amounts of time? Aren’t credits given in a consistent style? Transitions/music/effects usually of a certain style in and out of breaks and at the end as well as the beginning of a show?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.