Chris Tomberlin
Forum Replies Created
-
You are experiencing a bane of my existence – the apple 10bit gamma shift. It has been an issue for a LONG time now, but there are solutions. What codec are you rendering too, and what hardware are you using?
Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures -
Remember good ole’ “Cleaner” from Discreet/Autodesk? It will do exactly what you need. It will encode MPEG2 up to 20Mbps. I use it to encode high bitrate MPEG2 for delivery via FastChannel. I have version 6, so I don’t know about any other version. The only downside is that you really don’t have a practical way to properly view the encode. It will look trashy when you play it back via Quicktime, but it will be right when played from a hardware MPEG2 board.
Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures -
I would agree that a tablet is great for editing. It is far more intuitive and faster than a mouse. I wonder though if anyone can confirm a little buggy behavior with a tablet in FCP. Try shutting through some footage in the viewer (using JKL) and while shuttling, just move the cursor (with the pen) and see if you get a temporary choke. You’ll get stutters with a regular (non wacom) mouse, but the shuttle will continue as long as the mouse stops moving. With the wacom pen it will cause a much longer hang. I’ve spoken with Apple about this, and it seems like it could be a tablet driver thing since the apple mouse doesn’t behave that way. Graeme, Walter, are you seeing this behavior?
Thanks
Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures -
I did indeed speak with AJA and was provided with a solution within a few minutes. As usual, there is a problem with the Apple 10-bit codec and the fix is to pull a component out of the 1.1.4 AJA drivers and use it with the 1.2 drivers. Contact AJA for the exact proceedure; it’s not dificult and in addition it might be good for them to hear from other people. What we all REALLY need to be doing is trying to get Apple’s attention. There is the previously discussed problem with the apple 10bit codec, there are gamma issues with that codec and a few other problems with plug-ins in a 10bit timeline in FCP.
Thanks
Chris
OutPost Pictures -
It can’t be a faulty board if it only shows up with the new drivers and not with the old ones. Have you modified your After Effects preference file to “turn on” 16 bit capability for the v210 and 2Vuy codecs? And you don’t see the lines in a 16 bit comp? I’ve emailed AJA, but no response yet.
-Chris
-
Jeremy,
I’m pretty sure this is only with 10bit stuff. I won’t have time until later today or maybe tomorrow to reinstall the new drivers and try them again with only 8 bit footage. Let me know what you find.
Thanks
Chris -
FCP to AE via Automatic Duck is a great way to go. Color Finesse does translate over if you have the plug in for both AE and FCP. Version 2.0 of CF will indeed be great upgrade, and should make going from FCP to AE work even better. Another good CC plug in (a bundle of plug-ins actually)are theDigital Film Tools 55mm and Composite Suite stuff. Most of the CC filters (maybe all of them) translate over from FCP to AE.
Chris
OutPost Pictures -
[gary adcock] “I have refrained from diving in on this but know that you and your opinions are not alone.”
Thank you!
[gary adcock] “I found the same issues that you show above”
I know I’m not crazy, but it’s nice to have someone else out there who doesn’t think I am and who has reached the same conclusions with Firewire vs SDI.
Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures -
Firstly, let me say that when I joined this fray, no one was talking about additional filters. The discussion was whether or not SDI capture was better than FW capture. Adding a chroma smoothing filter to DV captured via firewire brings the chroma smoothness extremely close to that captured via SDI but it is still not “identical”. Let me also say, that the quality of the SDI output (i.e. amount of chroma smoothing) must also be affected somewhat by the video deck being used. My deck is a Panasonic AJ-SD955, Graeme used a DSR-1800.
Graeme, who has done extensive testing on this issue and written several plug-ins to improve chroma filtering says above that “it’s a workflow choice, not a quality choice.” However, on his website he says “There is a quality difference between the two approaches. The luma and chroma components are practically identical in both cases, but the chroma generated from the hardware upsample in the DSR-1800 DVCAM deck is slightly closer to the original Digital Betacam 4:2:2 chroma, but the difference is of such a small magnetude for me to recommend you pick your DV capture method based upon workflow requirement rather than any quality difference between the two methods.”
I’m really not trying to be a jerk here, but there is a difference between “practically identical”, and “identical”. One means two things are almost the same, the other means they ARE the same. Below are three images that have been blown up 200%. The first is a clip that was captured SDI out to 10bit uncompressed via the above mentioned panasonic deck. The second image is a straight firewire capture with the clip dropped into a 10bit timeline with no chroma filtering. Even at 100%, the difference here is visible. The last image is the firewire capture dropped into a 10bit uncompressed timeline with the 4:1:1 chroma filter added. The difference between this file and the SDI capture is indeed negligible, but there is still a difference. You won’t see it unless you download the images and compare them in Photoshop, AE, or FCP. Here is a link to a layered photoshop file with all three images so you can toggle between them to more clearly see the differences. Be sure to control or right-click to download the file. SDIvsFW
SDI
Firewire
Firewire with smoothing
When is “good enough” good enough? You have to decide that for yourself. Is loading DV footage via firewire and using a chroma smoothing filter “good enough” for your application, or “good enough” to avoid buying an SDI capture card? Most likely. Are both approaches “identical” with “no difference” between the two? Nope. Call me a purist, absolutist or whatever, but I’m just calling it like I see it. Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures -
[walter biscardi] “And that conversion is not magically adding any quality to the 5:1 compressed footage.”
Ahh, but I have the optional “magically add additional chroma information and resolution” board installed in my deck. Pricey, but worth it 😉
Seriously, I know that nothing is being added to the 5:1 compressed DV footage, and I know that it is a common misconception that converting DV to an uncompressed format “gives you back” something that was lost in the compression in the first place. That’s not what I am saying here. I think what is happening is that the deck in converting to SDI is employing some chroma filtering or something that the Quicktime conversion in the Mac is not.
[walter biscardi] “If I have to blow something upu 400% to see a difference, that means that the naked eye can’t see the difference at 100%.”
[walter biscardi] “If I can see the split, then something is different between the two. If I can’t, then the images are identical.”Your point is well taken, but there is a difference between “looks” the same and “is” the same. You are saying that to you, the two approaches “look” the same. Fair enough. However, they technically can’t “be” the same.
[walter biscardi] “You can work however you choose, but capturing DV25 via Firewire or SDI are one and the same which was the original question. Not DV25 vs. Uncompressed SD which is a completely different matter and which seems to be what you’re discussing.”
True, I’m talking about the difference between loading DV footage via firewire versus loading the same footage to an uncompressed codec via SDI. If you’re comparing loading DV footage via firewire versus loading the same footage back to the DV codec via SDI, then we are talking about different things. Even then though, those two approaches would yield captures that are not “identical”. They would “look” much more alike though.
[walter biscardi] “You don’t even need SDI to capture DV25 as Uncompressed, I used to do that 4 years ago with my CineWave system.”
What exactly do you mean here? Are you talking about capturing something via firewire then playing it out with an uncompressed codec to an analog component output or something?
Chris Tomberlin
OutPost Pictures