[Carsten Kurpanek]

Hey Matt,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I’m using Cinematools to do the audio EDL. Since this is a feature and we cut only with a reference audio (a mono mixdown), sound will have to rebuild our audio timeline with the actual multi channel audio from set. So in this case, the OMF is only the back up. I did give them an OMF and a QT for video reference.

The sound house is running a 23.98 project in ProTools. We cut in 23.98 in FCP. If the audio guys on set would have used 24 TC on the audio instead of 30 NDF, I could export a 24 TC audio EDL and the source and target TC would be spot on. However, since they recorded 30 NDF TC for the audio on set, I have to export a 30 NDF audio EDL. This, however, causes the target TC in that EDL to be slightly off by 1 to 6 frames – which makes sense of course.

So the 30NDF AUDIO EDL gives me the correct source TC (which originally was 30 NDF), but the wrong target TC (it gives me a 30 NDF frame count, although I’d need a 24 TC count to be spot on).

001 23 A C 16:19:48:02 16:19:48:05 05:06:03:03 05:06:03:06
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

This is the same clip in a 24NDF AUDIO EDL:

001 23 A C 16:19:45:21 16:19:45:24 05:06:03:02 05:06:03:05
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

The source is now by 3 seconds off, but the target is right on.

Basically, what I need would be a combination of both:

001 23 A C 16:19:48:02 16:19:48:05 05:06:03:02 05:06:03:05
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

I could do this manually of course, but that’s a lot of work. I was hoping I did something wrong somehow and it’s an easy fix on my end… Doesn’t look like it, though…

I’m considering importing the EDLs into Excel (or File Maker Pro) and switching out the target TC column, to create my own Frankenstein EDLs…

Thanks again,
C.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

Thank you, Neil, for explaining this. One more question, though: How does the scanner operator know what labroll he needs to use for the scan since that info is not included in the EDL?

Thanks again!

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

Thank you, Simon, for confirming this. I did maintain two separate databases and will export two separate cut lists.

Best,
C.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

I’m also on a feature that mixed 3perf and 4perf and we’re about to do a DI. You suggest to stick to the EDLs, but how do they know what frames to scan based on the EDL? The EDL contains the placement of a clip in the timeline and its origin on the video tape it came from, right? How does this information relate back to the original 35mm film?

Thanks.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

Thanks for responding. I have to check out those special features now. Funny that you consider this transition sloppy. LOL.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

Thank you, Terry. I have to try that out. The still frames don’t really bring across how amazing it looks in the movie.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Carsten Kurpanek]

I think I understand what you mean. You are basically not converting the NTSC footage to PAL, instead you are creating an 23,976 NTSC DVD with a 4,096% “lower” (but not slower) audio track. When you put this DVD in a PAL DVD player, the DVD player compensates for the 23,976 frame rate by speeding it up to 25 fps (= 4,096%), thus your NTSC disc is playing 4,096% faster than on a NTSC DVD player, but the pitch of the audio track (although speed up by the player) has the original pitch.

Basically you create two NTSC DVDs. One NTSC DVD for a NTSC DVD player with correct speed and sound. And one NTSC DVD with a lower pitched audio track which will play back on an PAL DVD player faster (video and audio), will look faster then the DVD image on the NTSC DVD player but will sound the same.

This is of course not a conversion from NTSC to PAL. You could also slow down both video and audio (pitch and lenght!) by 4,096% and burn it as a 23,976 NTSC DVD. If you’d play that on a PAL DVD player both audio and video would in theory playing in the same speed as the original movie on a NTSC DVD player. I highly doubt it will look good, though…

If you want a real PAL DVD you have to do what the others suggest. Conform the foottage to 25p and make up for the increase in speed by increasing the audio by 4,096%. If you are bothered by the higher sounding audio you can now adjust the pitch without changing the tracks length to its original pitch. Burn this on a 25p PAL DVD and you have real PAL which will definitely play on every player, not a NTSC DVD pretending to look like a PAL DVD.

I am actually trying to understand this whole process myself right now. I shot a short film with the Canon XL-H1 in 1080p24 and would like to have a DigiBeta in NTSC and PAL. A post house wanted to charge me 500 Euros to convert my HDV 24p footage to SD 25p PAL. I think I finally understand how to do it myself, using Cinema Tools and an audio editor.