Cinema Tools Audio EDL from 23.98 timeline with 30NDF source audio

[Matt Lyon]

Carsten, are you using Cinema Tools to generate the EDL? You’re going to want to do a 30 NDF audio EDL, since that is the timebase of the source media. To be honest, it’s been a while since I’ve done this, but I never recall it being an issue. I would talk to the sound folks and you’ll probably find out it is less of an issue than it seems.

FWIW, I usually am asked to deliver OMFs first and foremost, with EDLs as backups (I suspect they are rarely used).

You should also give them reference audio, so they can ensure that sync is maintained during their conform.

Hope this helps,

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto

[Carsten Kurpanek]

Hey Matt,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I’m using Cinematools to do the audio EDL. Since this is a feature and we cut only with a reference audio (a mono mixdown), sound will have to rebuild our audio timeline with the actual multi channel audio from set. So in this case, the OMF is only the back up. I did give them an OMF and a QT for video reference.

The sound house is running a 23.98 project in ProTools. We cut in 23.98 in FCP. If the audio guys on set would have used 24 TC on the audio instead of 30 NDF, I could export a 24 TC audio EDL and the source and target TC would be spot on. However, since they recorded 30 NDF TC for the audio on set, I have to export a 30 NDF audio EDL. This, however, causes the target TC in that EDL to be slightly off by 1 to 6 frames – which makes sense of course.

So the 30NDF AUDIO EDL gives me the correct source TC (which originally was 30 NDF), but the wrong target TC (it gives me a 30 NDF frame count, although I’d need a 24 TC count to be spot on).

001 23 A C 16:19:48:02 16:19:48:05 05:06:03:03 05:06:03:06
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

This is the same clip in a 24NDF AUDIO EDL:

001 23 A C 16:19:45:21 16:19:45:24 05:06:03:02 05:06:03:05
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

The source is now by 3 seconds off, but the target is right on.

Basically, what I need would be a combination of both:

001 23 A C 16:19:48:02 16:19:48:05 05:06:03:02 05:06:03:05
* FROM CLIP NAME: X173C-1/D
* SCENE X173C TAKE 1

I could do this manually of course, but that’s a lot of work. I was hoping I did something wrong somehow and it’s an easy fix on my end… Doesn’t look like it, though…

I’m considering importing the EDLs into Excel (or File Maker Pro) and switching out the target TC column, to create my own Frankenstein EDLs…

Thanks again,
C.

http://www.carstenkurpanek.com

[Matt Lyon]

Ah, okay… Thanks for the extra info. The scenario you are describing is pretty common. I\\\\\\\’ve done shows this way without problems.
You CANNOT mix timebases within an EDL … how would the program know which is which?
Your sound people will be conforming the audio initially in a 30 NDF project, since they\\\\\\\’ll have to ingest media at that TC rate.
Give them a separate picture only EDL at 24 NDF and they should be able to marry the two after the initial conform.
And the timecode numbers in the base 30 EDL aren\’t actually that far off. FCP Is just finding the nearest equivalent frame number. So 12 @ 24 fps becomes 15 @ 30 fps. 20 becomes 25, etc. So nothing is ever actually off by more than fractional amounts of frames. 23 @ 24 fps would fall somewhere between 28 and 29 @ 30 fps, for example.

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto

[Jim Blokland]

Hi Carsten:

It’s been awhile since I’ve done this, but if memory serves correct what you need to do is copy the audio from your sequence (or reels) and paste it into a new sequence with a 30 NDF timeline. Then export a CinemaTools audio EDL from there, and you should be good to go. You’ll notice that FCP does a bit of acrobatic trimming with the clips sometimes to make them conform, but you’ll be a great deal closer to having a good EDL for your sound guys to conform with.

Hope this makes sense/suits your situation.

Best, JIM.

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[Jay Trautman]

Carsten,

I’m having exactly the same issue. Did you find another workaround, or was your sound house able to work with not quite frame accurate master TC? I find it somewhat amazing that I can specify 24fps picture and 30NDF sound in my cinema tools database, and the thing still counts frames from the top of the clip and gets confused about whether to divide by 24 or 30.

Hope you’re well!

Jay