Boyd Mccollum
Forum Replies Created
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[Jeffbush] “Thanks for all the info…as far as our levels go, we are seeking a vu meter that will enable us to match up all 4 of our editors so we can have a uniform audio output. Do you have any suggestions about where we can find such a vu meter?”
within FCP the audio meters will be uniform from one station to another. Your outputs would be uniform at the same level. You can also go into Tools>Audio Mixer which will open as a window over the Viewer. This allows you to use sliders and the levels are a little easier to read. While its decent in FCP, audio really begins to take off when you use an external app such as Pro Tools – but then you are in the world of the professional audio editors/designers/engineers.
[Jeffbush] “We have been using -20db as a “standard” when we tape and sometimes when we capture via firewire directly from our XD player or cam, the levels are too low. We have tried raising the audio level using the audio mixer in FCP and must rais them all the way up for the audio to be acceptable. Is this common? It seems unusual that we should have to raise the audio into the red, just to get a good level.”
If your audio levels are too low, then you need to raise your audio levels when you tape. You should be shooting to record at around -12db (even up to -6db), making sure your peaks don’t go over 0db. The factors that determine this are the loudness of your subject, the distance of your mic from the subject you’re shooting, and the range of sounds your subject makes. When you do your sound check, have the subject go through a range, from the softest to loudest sounds they make, and set your levels to get the best sound possible. The quality of production audio will determine all downstream audio qualities. Ideally, you have an external mic(s) and someone with an audio mixer riding levels during your shoot. It’s part art and part science. For instance, you may accept a little over modulation of a short, sharp sound, like a door slamming, to get the dialogue you want. You’d then live with or replace the door slam in post.
A less ideal production scenario, but not uncommon, especially in live event/documentary-style productions, is relying on the onboard camera mic to record audio without the ability to ride levels. If there is a wide variation in the audio levels being recorded (really loud noises and low noises), then you are stuck with setting levels that might be too low for the soft sounds, but keeps the loud sounds from blowing out, or vice-versa. This is a judgement call you need to make, and depends ultimately on which sounds are going to be most important to you in the final project. You could also just use your camera AGC (automatic gain control) if it has one.
In post, if the levels are too low, you’ll need to just raise them until they meet your needs. This is where a good pair of head phones (Sony’s MDR-7506 and similar phones are industry standards) comes in handy. As you raise your levels, listen for distortion and for background/system noise (mics have a signal to noise ratio. As you raise the signal level, the noise inherent in the recording also rises and can become noticeable). If these stay within acceptable ranges for you, there shouldn’t be a problem. There are possible solutions for dealing with background noise, including audio filters, laying down ambience or music track, etc. While the individual clip levels can go as high as you need to go, your final output levels need to be at the -12db level (if it’s ever going to broadcast). Also before finishing your project, lay it off to tape or a DVD and play it on a regular TV to see how it sounds (you don’t want your levels distorting the speakers on a TV set, which is one reason for that -12db standard).
I’m not an audio expert by any means. You may want to post over on the Audio Professionals forum here on the Creative Cow. They have some really knowledgeable folks who could give you more indepth answers. I would recommend that you take a quick look at the FCP manual (accessible under the Help Menu). They have an excellent overview of audio and the audio workflow in Chapter III.
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Have you tried the usual: trashing preferences, deleting render files, etc? The project file may be corrupt as well.
[Francoise] ” But he has made a total mess of the project and I am at a loss as to how to get the project back into a reasonable workable state. “
If the director did make such a mess, your best solution may actually be to create a whole new project, reimport the media, and just beginning recutting everything from scratch. Rebuild sequences you like in the original, rather than copying them over from the previous project/timeline. You could export an EDL to assist or keep the previous timeline open as a reference (but not in your new project). You could even export the current project (if possible) with TC burn ins, and import the resulting file into the new project.
It really shouldn’t take much longer than trying to unravel all the issues the original cut has and it would leave you working with a more pristine project file. This would also have the added benefit of helping you become more familar with all the source material – extremely valuable in doc editing.
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Here’s the link to the Viewsonic 22″ monitor from Costco (online):
https://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11163877&whse=&topnav=&browse=&s=1
not sure if it’s the same model number Walter is referring to, but it’s a 22″ Viewsonic for $299 with the $50 mfg rebate.
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You can order through Costco online for the same price.
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you may have a corrupt render file or something along those lines. You could trash your preferences, render files, cache files, etc. and see if that clears up your problem. You could just start by deleting your render files and rerendering and see if that solves your problem, or just clean house all at once. Your project file could be corrupt as well, so you could open a new project, and copy over your edited sequences and reimport your media.
If you have extensive customization of your preferences, do a search here on the Cow for FCP Rescue. It’ll save you a lot of time resetting all your preferences after you trash the preference file.
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Did you adjust the audio level after you had already nested the timeline into your parent sequence (that is, you opened your nested timeline, adjusted audio levels, then closed the nest)? If so, try forcing the nest in your master timeline to rerender. Slide the opacity overlay of the nest to 0 then back to 100%. Then with the nest selected, do a CMD + R to rerender it.
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If you can play them in QT, then just export out of QT as NTSC DV/DVCPRO (or whatever codec you are using), then reimport them into your FCP project.
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Actually the translating (though not the subtitling – we’d do that in 2-3 hour segments and it took about a 3-4 days) turned out to be pretty enjoyable, there was an absolute gold mine of stuff in it. There are subtitling apps out there, including Belle Nuit Subtitler which is very good. I think they work better when you are either a native speaker in both languages or a native speaker in the language you are actually editing in. And usually done once you have picture lock. I know a little Chinese, but no where near enough to edit. I did know enough to help with translating parts, because I could say, “hey wait a minute, that’s not what she said”. I definitely learned a lot about the art of translating – while translations for the final cut can be more general in nature, to help with the flow/pacing of the film and not to bog the audience down, I found it critical to be as specific, word for word, as possible when actually editing. Probably the only real hair pulling experiences I had were when someone would express 3 distinct thoughts, requiring at least 3 English sentences, in only 3 Chinese words, taking less than a second of screen time. Argh!
The other workflow I recently read about for subtitling, was to put markers at the beginning of every sentence that needs translating. Then you can use the area for notes in the marker to type in the translation. I have another project, all in Chinese, that I will be working on, so I might try that way out.
As for nests, the opacity thing is the way to go to update, at least for 5.0.4 – not sure about 5.1x.
Take it easy.
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[reel2reel] “I’m a long-form editor and I rarely use nests. I find (but this is just my opinion) they’re too clunky for non-specific purposes. It’s just a question of why do I need to add another layer to navigate? It sounds to me like you’re using it more for finishing than for cutting. It would personally drive me nuts to have to dig into a nest every time I wanted to make a change. More importantly, though (and this might be baggage from older versions) I’d be seriously worried about the nest updating properly, which is the reason, I’m guessing, this thread started in the first place.”
I agree that nests should be for specific purposes, and I also find that too many nests, or rather layers of nests, gets me confused. Not referencing you, but based even on my own experience when I was new to FCP, the whole idea of nesting was rather intimidating. I’m sure many folks shy away from using nests in situations where it would really help for that very reason. I just wanted to make that point that nests aren’t really complicated and can be the best tool for the job.
The whole issue of nests not updating seems a little whacky to me. I know you wouldn’t want the nests to update (or rerender) if you are rendering the timeline the nest is in, but if you update the contents of the nest, the nest itself should reflect that. I imagine there’s a reason the app is designed the way it is, but I’m not sure why. Then if you have nested elements in nested elements, well, I don’t want to think about that!
In the project I was working on, I had over 4 hours of interviews all in Chinese. To edit I needed the translation on screen. Using Outline Text after about 10-15 minutes, my RT was taking a huge hit. I ended up splitting the interviews into smaller chunks, then exporting out as QT with burnt in tc, then reimporting them so I could edit. The downside is that the subtitles were part of the image. Once I got to a fine cut, I then swapped out all that footage with the original footage and subtitles. I was able to polish some more by having each chapter in its own sequence. For exporting, etc., that’s when I did the nests. When I’ve had to tweak sections, it’s not that problematic to open the nest and go in to do it.
[reel2reel] “I’m curious, though, are you saying that Nesting reduces your RT overhead? You get more real-time layers when you use Nests? I wasn’t aware of that. Is that correct?”
If my understanding is correct, and the way it’s worked for me, you do. One of the reasons for using a nest, especially with graphics/fx’s, is that you can render the effects (which can take awhile), then nest it. You then put the nest in your timeline, and that doesn’t need to rerender if it gets moved, etc. The nest reads the render file in the cache – which is why we need to modify the nest (the easiest way being to adjust the opacity) to be able to rerender it. Depending on your graphics card, how much RAM you have, how many effects you have, or the type of graphic/fx you have, it can add up.
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You can adjust an analog audio signal, but not a digital audio signal when capturing.
I’m wondering, how are you determining what your audio levels should be? In your first post, you said the levels were good in camera, but sounded low in FCP. Did you adjust your monitors on the computer? It’s like the volume on a television, if you can’t hear the sound, turn it up.
Audio is probably the most critical component in making a film “professional”. Take a little time to learn some of the basics. The FCP manual is a good place to start. You can also search the Cow (in the FCP forum or the Audio Professionals forum). You should also get fimilar with the audio workflow, where and when and why to set levels, etc.
Quick and dirty, as per my original email, set your external monitors. Ideally this should be set to a reference signal. Open up a sequence in FCP, and from Effects/Video Generators, select Bars and Tones (NTSC) and drop this onto the timeline. Play that and set your external speakers to a level that you like. Don’t adjust your speakers after this! And you should probably redo this before you do your final audio mix.
You’ll notice that the tones are at -12 db. For digital audio, -12 db is where you want to set your levels. You also want to avoid having your peaks go above 0 db (which clips your audio). Simple audio mixing, done after you are locked with video, would be to set levels from clip to clip. Of course, one audio clip at -12 db may sound too soft or too loud and you’d need to adjust that based on the how the other audio clips around it sound. This would normally be for your dialog and narration. Music and fx would need to be adjust differently, based on what you’re trying to achieve in any given scene.
Ideally, when you captured your audio in producion, the levels were pretty consistent. If so, don’t adjust the levels coming into FCP. If the levels for an entire clip or tape are too high/low, you can open that clip in the Viewer, select the audio tab, and adjust the audio level. That affects the entire master clip. Usually what happens is that the levels on the tape or clip fluxuate up and down and depending on the actual piece of it you use, the levels need to mixed up or down. Another piece of that same clip might need to be mixed just opposite of the previous one you used.
As you edit, you can adjust the audio on an individual clip if it’s too loud or too soft, but most experienced editors don’t get too freaked by inconsistent audio levels early in an edit; producers on the other hand…
Anyways, quick and dirty.