Bob Zelin
7
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Barry –
no offense – and please remember – it’s ME that is the jerk ! Creative Cow is an open forum for exchange of information, but for me (personally) there is a limit of how much I will give for free.If we want to be offended by anyone, it should be Apple, that has promoted Thunderbolt networking, which in real life, doesn’t work very well. The smaller companies (don’t you like to support small companies ?) make “third party products” (like Promise and Small Tree) that actually DO WORK !.
you state – –
“The trick/hope while aging is to not forget what you do know.”My problem is that most of the information that I know, from being a video engineer since age 20 is completely worthless today. No one told me 30 years ago that Linux would be “all the rage” today !
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Barry, Barry, Barry –
I see that you have joined Creative Cow just three days ago. I see that you have retired from Boeing recently. I am sure that you are a very smart guy. If you have searched the internet about me, you have probably seen that I am quite a jerk. This is a long thread, and I am going to reply with a non technical answer that is not becoming of a professional forum like Creative Cow. I am an “old guy” – almost 61. And Chris Duffy ain’t no youngster. There are a lot of great people on these forums.I am sorry to say that I am not going to help you for free, so that your son’s company can have the luxury of wonderful network performance, so that he can buy his family lots of new wonderful things, so that the rest of us can suffer. It is my advice to you that you say to your son “son, we should hire one of these companies – like Small Tree – or anyone else that you see here advertise on Creative Cow – so that we can get our stuff working properly”. We do this for our living,
and not that we are smarter than you – you seem to be a very very bright guy, but you seem like you need some help with this. Just like you might need some help getting your transmission fixed, or your leaky toilet fixed, or your leaking roof fixed. And someone – perhaps your son – needs to pay SOMEONE to assist you to get the rest of this working.
$10,000 for a complete shared storage system from Small Tree (or other manufacturers) is NOT a lot of money. You just spent over $1000 for the two Promise SanLink2’s and you got some free advice. If someone chimes in here, and says “look – I know how to get thunderbolt 2 bridge networking working” – are you going to return those SanLink2 boxes, and screw the dealer and Promise, so that your son can have more profit for his company, and buy his family more stuff ? WE WANT THE MONEY TOO ! We have families, we have medical insurance. And we don’t have a pension from Boeing.You have purchased wonderful SanLink2 boxes. As I mentioned before, there are other products on the market, from Small Tree, Sonnet, ATTO, and Akitio in addition to this, that would have worked as well. Each have drivers. Each have tuning files. Each have a unique way of setting them up. You and your sons company needs to HIRE SOMEONE to proceed with this process at this time.
Thunderbolt bridge is a terrible choice, compared to ANY of the hardware solutions on the market. I don’t know exactly what your son’s company does, but if it involves video editing, those “kids” doing the editing will HATE what you have setup, if you continue with Thunderbolt bridge networking. You are not saving your son any money. The #1 expense of any business is LABOR, and if they can’t work efficiently, then YOU are costing them money, just because you thought you found a solution for 60 bucks, which all of us can tell you, will not work in real life applications, when you use software editing or graphics products from Davinci, Adobe, Apple or AVID.
You know what to do next.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Hi Barry –
as you have discovered, you cannot rely on Thuderbolt bridge networking. In my opinion it is not even low cost, because even though it “appears” to be free, if you have two Mac’s in two different offices that are more than 6′ away from each other, you need an expensive Corning Optical Thunderbolt 2 cable, and this costs as much as two Promise SanLink 2 boxes. Bottom line, I have discussed this with the Intel folks for the past 2 years at the NAB show. Both years they have told me that while data transfer can be achieved using thunderbolt network (as you have seen yourself), the performance is inconsistent, and they do not recommend it. Their Thunderbolt guy said that “possibly with thunderbolt 3 this might work” but he could not assure me that this would be the case. All Thunderbolt development and research is done in Tel Aviv, Israel, not here or Japan, or China.With that said, any thunderbolt to 10G adaptor requires drivers. Nothing is native to the Mac OS. This means that if you purchase a thunderbolt to 10G adaptor from Small Tree, ATTO Technology, Promise, Sonnet, or Akitio, you must go to this companies website, and install their proprietary driver, and reboot your computer. As Mr. Duffy has pointed out, when you go into System Preferences> Advanced> Hardware, you change from Automatic to Manual, and change the 10G selection to Autoselect. Once you do this, you will be able to select an MTU of 9000. This applies to all products on the market today.
I must urge you to stop going to the Apple store to ask for advice. The employees at the Apple store know nothing about this subject. If you are insistent on dealing with Apple directly, your only hope is to speak with the Apple Enterprise group, which has no affiliation with any store. I am surprised, that since you have dealt with Mr. Duffy in the past, you did not deal with Small Tree right away, who would have resolved this for you quickly.
You will find that if disable SMB signing (create a nsmb.conf file in the /etc folder), your SMB networking will work very well, and you will not see the ramp up performance you are seeing with AFP. SMB has it’s own issues (random disconnects) but it is currently native to macOS Sierra 10.12.
Since you have the SanLink 2’s on order, I would be very surprised if you do not see dramatic performance improvements instantly between your two computers (once you load your Promise driver and reboot your computers).
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
everyone takes a Mac Book Pro. There are so many on location to work with.
And both Sonnet and JMR make pocket size thunderbolt 2 SSD drive that are about 500 gig, so it’s more than enough for a small shoot, and you can stick it in your shirt pocket when you are done !Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Cat6 is rated up to 55 meters.
Cat 6A is rated up to 100 meters.
There is NO SPECIFICATION for Cat 7 (shielded) for 10G ethernet. It’s all fantasy.I use cheap Cat 6 for most of my installs. It certainly won’t hurt to do Cat6A, for “future proof” (there is no such thing as future proof). If you are less than 150 feet, use Cat 6. If you are more than 150 feet used Cat 6A. Cat 7 shielded – really ?
Stop it.The future is 40G ethernet, which is 12 strand QSFP fiber, not Cat 7.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
don’t do it.
Your thunderbolt to SATA adaptor probably does not support port multiplication, which is what all the old Sonnet and Cal Digit (and Enhance Technology) boxes uses. This requires a Sil3124 chipset, and the barely functional drivers that are floating around are not very good. And port multiplication with Sil adaptors always failed eventually, even when it was new, so you will find the entire experience very frustrating.Get a small thunderbolt RAID from Highpoint, Promise, Maxx, G-Tech, and save yourself some aggravation.
I am always amazed that people say “I want to save money” but when your media disappears, and you can’t deliver your job to your paying client, then you don’t get paid, and you then say “crap, what the hell did I do”. Losing one client will cost more than the cost of a drive array that actually works.Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
here is a simple answer, that you can tell your freelancer (who is probably a kid that has no money, and can’t afford anything) –
“if you are not a company or corporation in the state that you are in, and do not have an EIN #, and cannot fill in a W9 with a company or corporation EIN #, then you are an employee. I don’t care if I hire you to clean out my garbage pails.
If you have not filed and pay taxes (even if they are zero) with the state of (whatever state you are in), then you are
an employee, and will suffer the financial consequences of being an employee (and I will have to match your social security contribution with every pay check).There is nothing worse than trying to explain to some kid that is making $100 for the day, that taxes will be taken out of his paycheck, making his $100 into $66 dollars, because he has not filed for company status with the state.
If you do not follow these rules, you will (one day ) be screwed, as countless companies have.
Let me tell you a story of ignorance (my ignorance). I provide labor – and I am a corporation (C corporation). But I do not charge sales tax (I do NOW !). If I worked for you, and you needed an XLR audio connector, it cost me $3.00, and I bill you $3.00, and it’s a “wash” – I make zero profit on it, and you pay me the three bucks, and we are even.
NOT ACCORDING TO THE STATE SALES TAX ADMINSTRATION !!!!I worked for a massive corporation that had a line by line audit, and they wanted to see my sales tax information.
What sales tax information – I don’t sell anything other than my labor, and I pay quarterly. I don’t sell anything.
FAIL !!!!!! — I now owed 15 years of delinquent sales tax, so I was lucky to be able to file for “sales tax amnesty” in the state of Florida, and only owed the past 3 years of sales tax (that I made ZERO profit on), with penalty of course, because I did not pay sales tax for the measly cable and connectors that I supplied to customers (just like you).
If you do not FOLLOW THE RULES you get punished. That’s why (not to get political) when the police pull you over, you say “yes sir officer”, and not “I don’t charge any profit on my cable and connectors so go screw off, because I don’t owe you any damn taxes”.If your idiot kid does not have a formal company or corporation with the state, HE IS AN EMPLOYEE. I don’t care if he is a freelance plumber, and your toilet is overflowing. It’s YOUR TOILET, and you own the toilet, and if he fixes your toilet, you better pay his disability insurance, and his employers contribution to social security, or you are in BIG trouble.
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
Singleton writes –
IS it possible to upgrade a MAC 5,1 to a ATTO card? or something to playback 4K DCI?REPLY – so, as per AJA Data Calc, 4K-DCA 2:4:1 at 23.98 fps, using a 10bit YUV Codec required 428 MB/sec.
and 4K-DCI 1:9:1 at 23.98 fps with a 10 bit YUV Codec is 526 MB/sec.That’s a lot of bandwidth for a single stream. Which is why most people use compression.
Exactly what RAID card and RAID array did you wind up buying ?
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
on Creative Cow, almost every single ad is about storage, or a disk drive company. I know that you have been doing this for a long time. I have no idea of how you survived all this time without owning a RAID array. As for the buzz words like thunderbolt, firewire, etc. This will never stop. Every year there will be new buzz words. Just like every year, your software will change, and you will have to continue to learn new menus, new changes. When will it be over – NEVER – you will always have to learn something new.
There are three companies that make host cards for Mac Pro 5,1 computers – Highpoint, ATTO and Areca. These cards plug into a box (a RAID array) that has a bunch of SATA drives in it. When the drives are stripped together, it makes it fast enough so that you can play back your 4K DCI footage. Because the Mac Pro 5,1 was discontinued in 2013, most of the new drive arrays today are thunderbolt – because the new Mac’s are all thunderbolt. But there are plenty of companies that can sell you a RAID array that will work perfectly with your Mac Pro 5,1. Who ? Companies like Maxx Digital, G-Tech, and most of the other “banner ad” companies selling drives that you see advertise right here on Creative Cow. So it’s your job now to CALL these companies and say “hey, I have a Mac Pro 5,1, what kind of RAID array can you sell me, so I can play back 4K Media”.
And David is correct – most of these card cost about $1000, so it will be cost of the drives, the RAID box and the card, to get you a working system.
bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com -
yes it exists. You can’t screw in the SSD drives ?
Here is the Other World Computing 4 bay SSD enclosure with the SSD drives pre mounted –
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/External-Drive/OWC/ThunderBay-4-miniand on the other end of the spectrum, here is the Facilis with all SSD –
https://facilis.com/shared-storage-products/
the Facilis SSD8 is fully populated with eight SSD drivesthe thunderraid can come fully populated with SSD drives –
https://www.maxxdigital.com/thunderraid2.htmlthe Promise Pegasus2 M4 comes pre loaded with SSD drives.
and therer are others – why not just buy an empty chassis and stick some SSD’s in there, and same money ?
Bob Zelin
Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com