[Bob Zelin]

the QNAP offerings are very confusing (so is Synology) because there are SO many products. A perfect example is the
TS-1685 and the TS-1635. These products look absolutely identical, with almost identical features, and the 1635 is half the price of the 1685. It was from the “school of hard knocks” that I learned that the TS-1635 is an inferior product, and barely functional for professional video work, but the TS-1685 is an absolutely incredible powerhouse, that can edit 6K for multiple people all day long. You don’t learn anything unless you make mistakes. Sometimes that costs money.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

It’s ok. Nick does not like people to be mean to him. He will soon see what it’s like to deal with clients that criticize his work, if he feels that he did an excellent job.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

It’s always easy for me to respond, when it’s not my money.
I am telling you, that this is my strong advice for the least expensive product that will work for your application.
Get the QNAP TVS-871T. 8 bays, expandable via the Thunderbolt ports. Small footprint, very powerful. You can do 4K and 6K editing on it from multiple workstations. It has two built in 10Gbase-T (Cat6) ports, and four 1G ports, so you can avoid a switch for a while. Plenty for 2 – 3 editors. When you get new MacBook Pro’s with Thunderbolt 3, (these are expensive computers), you will certainly have the budget for the new Promise SanLink3 thunderbolt to 10GbE adaptors (tiny, and $299 retail each). These are buss powered, and will give you over 800 MB/sec performance.

The TVS-871T is under $2700, but of course, you need 8 drives to run it. It is the right purchase for you. If you say “well, we don’t have $2700, we only have $500 for the TS-531”. Well, what can I say. It’s not the right box. If you then say “well, what can we get for $500” – I have no answer for you. I want to recommend something that you won’t be sorry with later on.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Hi –
I own the TS-531X. It is my test system. The QNAP and Synology and Netgear ReadyNAS boxes are designed as shared storage products, that connect via 1G Ethernet, 10G Ethernet, and occationally Thunderbolt (depending on the model, and the TS-531X is not that model). The performance of the TS-531X and TS-831X is half that of the more expensive
TVS-871T and TVS-1282T. Will it handle 1080i editing over 1G connections (you get two 1G ports and two 10G SFP+ ports). Yes it will. You cannot connect a computer via the USB3 ports. These ports are for expander QNAP chassis, or for an external drive that you can format in EXT4 format (and now exFAT for a $4.00 license fee). What is important to remember is that even when used in “DAS” mode (Direct attached storage) – even with thunderbolt, these are not plug and play systems. They have to be assigned a static IP address, both on the client computer (Mac or PC) and on the QNAP. Things just don’t plug in and work like they do on a G-Tech drive or Lacie or Promise drive – even with Thunderbolt.

If you are looking at this model, because you can get it for $500, and think that its just cheaper than a G-Tech Studio XL or Promise R8, then you are making a mistake. As always, if you want the right toys, you have to spend the money to get them. And in 2017, it’s cheaper than ever to get these types of products, but as I so often observe, nothing is cheap enough.

As you already know, the TS-531X (and any of the models I mentioned) are not Thunderbolt 3, so this product is not upgradable in the future to Thunderbolt 3, if that is what you are looking for. And you did not mention what editing software you are using. For use with FCP X, Resolve, and Premiere, this will work fine. IT will NOT work fine for AVID Media Composer – even for 2 users, unless you purchase Indiestor Mimiq for each of your client computers.

Let me be clear – you cannot take a Mac based USB3 drive, plug it into the QNAP USB 3 port, and it just “mounts”.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

and then you see an article like this on fcp.co
https://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1979-the-future-of-newsgathering-is-mojo-with-city-producer

and when you say “who will be using AVID, FCP X, Adobe Premiere, Resolve” – because with the exception of the hi end (oh, I guess we are the hi end) – it’s a matter of “can’t we hire some kid, and pay him nothing, and get this job done”.
“Hey kid, do you own an iPhone – YOURE HIRED !”. At some point, someone will go to Mark Raudonis (Mr. 99% AVID for reality TV), and say to him “listen Mark, AVID Schmavid, we need to reduce our labor costs, and these damn editors are just making TOO MUCH MONEY”. The decision will be determined based on what the low priced labor knows how to use.

Anyway – in Florida – Premiere, FCP X, Resolve, AVID last place (except for TV stations).

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Nick –
sorry, but you bought a strange computer. It appears that the MSI Aegis 3 has an NVidia GTX-1070 and a second
PCIe card, that appears to be some sort of USB card, but I can’t tell from the pictures. So YANK THAT OUT, and install
what I am guessing is the compatible port multiplier eSATA card –
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/temposatapro6gbpcie.html
Mac Gurus is not longer selling eSATA RAID arrays, or their corresponding cards (they do sell miniSAS, Thunderbolt and USB3 RAID arrays, but you want to use what you have). Your array is not being seen because you need a port multiplier card to do this. The 30 dollar ones for eSATA see single drives, not multiple drives, that work with the Silicon Image 3124 chip set, which is what I am assuming that you have in your Mac Guru’s Burly package.

so try this –
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/860827-REG/Sonnet_tsata6_pro_e4_TEMPO_SATA_6GB_PRO.html

and you will put up with my wise cracks, because no one else is interested in helping you.
Slappy

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

wow – the desperation for a thunderbolt shared storage system. While I might be wrong (and I probably am), this is what I observe. I apologize if I am making assumptions about you –

1) you think that this is just going to plug in and work, without configuration, just like you plug in a Promise R6 or R8 thunderbolt array – it’s NOT !
2) products like the Accusys and QNAP allow for direct thunderbolt connection (Accusys allows for 3 connections, no expandability, and requires a metadata server like XSAN or Tiger Technologies with licenses). QNAP allows for FOUR thunderbolt 3 connections, with no licenses and no metadata server requirement . So right away, the QNAP is more appealing. But a thunderbolt 3 cable can be a maximum length of 2 meters. So you are going to have all your editors at the same desk, on each corner with the QNAP in the middle, and everyone working 6 feet away from each other on the same desk, with the QNAP in the middle ?

SO – what you need to purchase is CORNING OPTICAL Thunderbolt 2 cables (there is no corning thunderbolt 3 optical cable). And these are EXPENSIVE. On the thunderbolt 3 QNAP, you would need thunderbolt 3 to thunderbolt 2 adaptors (no I have not tested to see if this work) to get your Corning Thunderbolt 2 cable to work into the QNAP Thunderbolt 3 port. And when you do this, you will only get thunderbolt 2 speeds. The QNAP boards are dual port thunderbolt 3 boards (and there are two of them) – so when you use both ports this will split the bandwidth to the normal thunderbolt 2 speeds (same as 10G Ethernet). And for the QNAP, you are still using thunderbolt bridging, which means that you connect to your Mac, and assign a static IP address on a different subnet for each Mac thunderbolt port, and each QNAP thunderbolt port.

I believe the desperation of the thunderbolt switch, or thunderbolt networking, is to make it easy – plug and play, and THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

It is just as easy, and much cheaper (since so many QNAP’s come with free 10GbE ports) to use dirt cheap Cat 6 Ethernet cables to connect your multiple computers to your QNAP – either directly, or with a small netgear 10G switch.
If you get a QNAP TVS-871T, this is under $2700, (you need to add drives) and it comes with four 1G ports and 2 10G ports – all built in. The setup for doing the thunderbolt ports on the TVS-1282T3 is as simple, or as complex as doing the 10G ports – all with a lot less aggravation using the 10G ports (mainly because you can buy a $12 dollar 50 foot Cat 6 cable, and not have to work at the same desk as your buddy with his Thunderbolt 3 laptop.

And in December, Apple will release the iMac Pro which will come FOR FREE with a 10GbE port that will plug directly into the QNAP 10G port (or an inexpensive Netgear 10G switch).

SO – does Thunderbolt 3 work with the QNAP – yes it does. Is it realistic for your application – probably not.
And even if it is exactly what you want, this is no “plug and play” solution – you have to configure the QNAP, and your Mac.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

you state nothing about your esata hard drive tower.
It is my guess, from your lack of any description that this was a PORT MULTIPLIER chassis, that probably had a Cal Digit Fasta eSATA card or a Sonnet eSATA card to run this RAID chassis. And USB3 with or without adaptor cannot run the requirement of the Silicon Image SIL3124 chipset that was used in all these port multiplier RAID arrays, so it’s not going to see it. “Oh my – what should I do” – BUY NEW STORAGE. It’s 2017, you probably bought this in 2009.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

so the bottom line here is –
you already know that if you purchased a SAS RAID card and a 8 bay drive array, this whole process would be easy.
A nice G-Tech, Lacie, etc. would work just fine, but it’s too much money.

So you are looking at the QNAP’s – not because you need shared storage, but because they will ultimately cost less money than a conventional pre raided SATA array for your older Mac Pro.

Here is the bottom line. If you go to a value added reseller in your area that knows how to configure the QNAP for you, this will work fine. The tech will help you install the card, load the drivers, set the IP addresses, and of course build the QNAP for you, and it will work. And I am SURE that your value added reseller will CHARGE YOU MONEY for this service, just like the folks that make the pre configured RAIDs that just plug into your system charge “more money” – because all the work is done for you.

But if you think that you are going to order a QNAP TS531X or a TS831X, pop some drives in there, and it’s just going to work, you are in for a big disappointment. Now, you can certainly sit there and try to figure out how to do it, but most people fail at this, which is why you should use a qualified reseller or freelance tech that can do this for you.

In the end, there is no cheap way. You pay one way (the more expensive preconfigured product), or you get the cheap stuff, and can’t figure it out, and then have to hire someone to help you. Just like installing a toilet – not expensive to buy, but not easy to install.

The QNAP is an excellent product, and very fast, and will work very well with your older Mac Pro with the right 10G card like the Sonnet. I agree with Neil that you should consider the 8 bay and not a 4 or 5 bay. When you work in 4K, you eat up drive space like crazy, and 8 drives will give you much greater performance than 4 drives.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Eric, Eric –
the Synology 815+ is only a 4 bay, and there is no 10G ports on this – only four 1G ports.
There is no PCIe slot for a 10G card.
This unit will not perform as well as your old Xserve. Who advised you on this model ?

If you were going with Synology, and wanted an Xserve replacement, the correct product would have
been the RS18017xs+ with an optional 10G card, that would feed a 10G switch.

I feel that you will be disappointed with your purchase.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com