[Bob Zelin]

We have office cabled using CAT6 which was great foresight. But definitely need to upgrade our switch and also MacPros to achieve 10GbE.

REPLY – You simply purchase a 10G switch. They are cheap (QNAP, Buffalo, Netgear)
Your MacPro’s can achieve 10G right now.
For a 2013 Mac Pro 6,1 Cylinder, you purchase a Sonnet Twin 10G or Promise SanLink2 thunderbolt 2 to 10G adaptor. For a 2010 – 2012 Mac Pro, you purchase a Sonnet Presto 10Gbase-T card (about $275). You don’t need to upgrade to get 10G.

What are your thoughts on having a NVME drive as the “current” working drive housed in the NAS? i.e Let either MacPro on the network work on the current project. Once it’s finished, archive the project onto the RAID?

REPLY – NVME’s are too small. When it comes time to purchase, you will probably purchase 10TB or 12TB drives – and eight of those. You will still have enough bandwidth to have everyone edit in 4K.

Without discounting potential future acquisitions of machines capable of much greater than 10Gbs speeds do you still think it’s a good solution?

REPLY – is it a good solution ? YES. You are not going to do 40G Ethernet on this “in the future” because SATA drives are too slow. A single 40G connection will saturate the entire bandwidth of the unit. This is not a limitation of the QNAP – it’s a limitation of the Seagate and/or Western Digital 7200 RPM SATA drives. Even a 16 bay will only give you a total aggregate bandwidth of 1800 MB/sec. To achieve the speeds for 40G, you need all SSD’s.
I am unaware of any company making an all NVME RAID enclosure. They are just for caching at the moment.
Perhaps we will see this at NAB in April.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

QNAP TVS-872XT-16 G 8 bay NAS with one built in 10G port – $1899

eight Seagate Ironwolf 4TB 7200 RPM SATA drives – this will be 24 TB total storage after RAID 6 – $175 each or $1400 total (of course, you can get bigger drives – 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 TB each drive)

QNAP 8 port 10G switch – $589

for your 5,1 Mac Pro’s – install Sonnet Presto 10G NIC card – $276 each or $552 total

1899
1400
589
552
——-
$4440 total price.

Can you do it with Synology – of course.
You still need the 10G cards, you still need a 10G switch (and you still need drives !).

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

A 2TB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SATA drive is currently $499 US.
So six of these would cost you $3000. Then you need a storage enclosure for them.
I assume you would create at least a RAID 5 out of this – so would you spend this much money for
10 TB of usable storage ?

If there is a new Mac Pro, I will faint. And it certainly will not be shown at NAB.
If there is any progress between Apple and NVidia, I will faint from this as well.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

OMG ! What is this ? Yahoo News ?
I came to this link to see “Two New Products Plus More at NAB 2019”
where are those 2 new products ?
There is nothing here to show these 2 new products. I love ATTO – where are the 2 new products ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

well Resolve works fine with a Vega 56 or Vega 64 or the Blackmagic eGPU that has the Vega 56 in it.
Because Resolve supports the AMD GPU. Who cares if Apple and NVidia hate each other. Why can’t Adobe
go to AMD to get these questions answered ? There is a story there, as well.
Are you suggesting (I apologize if I appear aggressive with this question) – that no FCP X user ever uses Photoshop, After Effects or Adobe Media Encoder ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

ok –
so since GPU acceleration with the AMD cards are supported by FCP X, Davinci Resolve, Maxon Cinema 4D and Autodesk Maya – HOW COME Adobe can’t just go to AMD, give them a bunch of money, and say “let’s get GPU rendering for Adobe CC products working with AMD cards?”.

The only reason this debate goes on and on about NVidia is because of Adobe software. Why won’t Adobe and AMD (or Adobe and Apple) play ball ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Okay, hope I’m not posting blasphemy here. Bob, I met you at Cinegear last year and you really are the oracle of 10G.

REPLY – oh yes, you are, because I can already see – you have only one priority. “What is the ABSOLUTE CHEAPEST THING that I can get”. That’s all you really care about. But you are not alone. That is pretty much all probably 50% of the Creative Cow (and other forum users) care about. “Isn’t there something cheaper”.

I’m trying to build a similar 2-mac-only setup to run Resolve only for myself and my wife. We’ve both switched to Resolve for all of post. (We only gave it a shot after Bob suggested we try it–thank you!).

Any experience with the Synology 1817? (Standard version, not the plus) It INCLUDES 2x10G ports, for a very low price. Is this too good to be true? Will I be stuck in 450MB/s crappy 10G land? Or worse?

REPLY – I know this, because I have been thru this already. You are getting a “great price” because the Synology 1817 uses the incredibly horrible Annapurna CPU processor. It runs painfully slow. AND you think you are getting a deal because it comes with two SLOW 10G ports (“but aren’t all 10G ports exactly the same” ) – simple answer NO.
The Synology 1817 is almost identical to the incredibly useless QNAP TS-831X also with dual 10G ports and the Annapurna CPU. And I see on the QNAP forums people crying and complaining about how horrible the performance is. AND to make matters worse – I OWN A QNAP TS-831X, and let me tell you, it’s the worst product QNAP makes – right up there with the Synology 1817.
The Synology 1817 + has an OPTIONAL 10G card (“oh no – I have to spend more money”) – and it comes with the Intel ATOM CPU, which is not great, but its night and day better than the Annapurna CPU processor. What does all of this mean – it means that the cheap boxes will run SLOW.

There’s a video on YT of how to put PostregSQL for Resolve 15 on the Synology directly. I’m willing to tinker and troubleshoot myself until we grow a bit more. But, Bob, if you put the hex on this Synology idea, I’ll do the QNAP-873e or maybe spring for the 872XT if the speed is that much better.

REPLY – setting up a PostgreSQL on a QNAP or a Synology is not for the weak of heart. That’s why Blackmagic recommends a simple Mac Mini (and most people screw this up as well). But yes, I set up PostgreSQL database servers for Resolve on these all the time, and it works. Remember – you have to have the correct version of PostgreSQL to get Resolve 15.2 to work !
The QNAP TVS-873e also does not come with a 10G card – this is an option. If you want a dual port card, it’s the LAN-10G2T-X550. If you want a single port 10G card, it’s the QXG-10G1T, and then you get a little switch, which is dirt cheap now on the B&H Site. I think the QSW-1208-8C is about $450 now.
As far as performance, the Synology 1817+ with 10G will perform pretty much like the TVS-873e with the 10G card. Both are “ok” but not great.
The TVS-872XT is a new product. It’s $1899 with one 10G port (so you buy the little switch, or put a 10G card inside the QNAP for another port) and it DRAMATICALLY outperforms the QNAP TVS-873e, or Synology 1817+.

I’m on a 12-core cheesegrater which still runs better than most iMacs. She’s on a MBP with TB2. My idea would be to use a Sonnett solo 10G for me, and the Akito Dock Pro for her using TB2>TB3 adapter. Akito says this will work. (it’s not bus powered) Both appear to be aquantia chips.

REPLY –
None of these adaptors will work unless you are using macOS 10.13.3 or later. If you put the $89 Sonnet card inside a 12 core Mac Pro Cheesegrater, and it’s running macOS 10.12.6 or even 10.13 – it will not recognize the Aquantia AQC-107, and there is nowhere to download the driver. It’s build into macOS 10.13.3 – 10.14.3. If you can’t figure out how to get your Mac Pro Cheesegrater to update to a new OS, get the Sonnet Presto 10Gbase-T which is about $300.
As for the TB2 Mac Book Pro – same rules. You must be running macOS 10.13.3 or later, because of the Aquantia 10G chip. The “right” thing to do for a TB2 Mac Book Pro is to purchase a Sonnet Twin 10G or Promise SanLink2. Will the Akitio TB3 dock with a T2 to T3 adaptor work ? I have no idea. I can tell you this. Many T3 products like the Sonnet Solo 10G (which is $179) are BUSS POWERED and draw 60 watts. If there is no external power supply for the Akitio Dock Pro, the thunderbolt 2 port is NEVER EVER going to power the Akitio T3 dock.

NewEgg’s got a solid deal on Seagate 12TB Exos drives, theyre now the same price as IronWold. Any preference?

REPLY – I have no idea. I use Seagate Ironwolf Pro 12 TB drives, which are $379.

SO – how do we end this story ?

QNAP TVS-872XT – $1899
QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card, OR a better investment – the QNAP QSW-1208-8C switch. ($589 – the price went back up).
eight Seagate 12 TB Ironwolf drives (buy 9 – you need a spare) – $379 each
Sonnet Presto 10GbaseT card for your old Mac Pro – $276
Sonnet Twin 10G for the Thunderbolt 2 MacBook Pro – $180

total price for hardware – $6355 for 72TB after RAID 6, and this includes a spare drive.
You can get 10TB drives (60 TB after RAID 6) and these are $299 each, so your price will drop by $711
to $5644 total

And when you say OMG THAT IS SO EXPENSIVE – look at the price of a Promise Pegasus or G-Tech G Speed Shuttle XL (and of course, these are for single user – not shared storage, and no PostgreSQL database).

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

once you are in the program, Premiere looks identical on Mac and PC.

I will get you more info on how to find the Media Cache folder in my next post.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

it’s not your storage.
Simple answer – switch to a Win 10 PC with an NVidia GPU card. Your Mac can’t do GPU acceleration.
Other tips – go to Preferences> Media Cache.
Find the path for your Media Cache. Don’t click clean – it’s not good enough.
Manually go to that path /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Common /Media Cache
and delete all those files (with AE or Premiere closed). Then relaunch. I bet it’s faster now.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

As an independant film-maker of one long-form documentary at a time I need a fast 4k+ capable Edit station plus a less-capable Assistant Edit station (searching shots, organising metadata, bins etc to feed to the main Edit station) connected to the same source footage. I could use the Collaboration features of Resolve Studio to handle real-time conflicts.

REPLY – to use the Collaboration feature of Resolve Studio, you need the paid version of Resolve for both system, and a dedicated server running PostgreSQL. I used to use the QNAP for this, but now Blackmagic updated the PostgreSQL requirement to 9.5, and the last version of QNAP is 9.3. So it’s back to a dedicated Mac mini for the PostgreSQL database server (or any cheap Mac you have lying around for this).

If I connect these 2 (& I mean only 2, no need for more) workstations in an isolated network to the QNAP NAS using it’s 2 separate 10GbE ports can it act as a “LAN controller” or even better a “SAN server” without the need for extra hardware or software ?

REPLY – you plug each computer into a 10G port if you don’t want to purchase a 10G switch. When you purchase a TVS-873e, it comes with no 10G cards, so you purchase the optional QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 card ($359 US) and plug one computer into each port. If you purchase the TVS-872XT that comes for free with one 10G port, and you don’t want to purchase a switch, you purchase a QNAP QXG-10G1T ($89) stick that into the QNAP TVS-872XT, and now you have 2 10G ports.
You assign QNAP 10G port # 1 to 192.168.2.3, and make your computer 192.168.2.4
you assign QNAP 10G port # 2 to 192.168.3.3, and make your computer 192.168.3.4
If you say “how come I just can’t buy it, plug it in, and it just works automatically” – well, you can’t – that’s why.

Or would it still need a switch (to avoid LAN static addresses etc)?

REPLY – you need to setup static IP addresses with or without a switch, because you want reliable connection to your QNAP (or any shared storage system). So let’s say you get a Lumaforge Jellyfish, which is a great product.
The Jellyfish base model has 2 10G port that have static IP addresses. You still have to assign a static IP to your computers.
If you are asking “isn’t there a way for someone who knows nothing about any of this stuff to make it work without either hiring someone, or watching a bunch of YouTube Videos ?” – the answer is NO.

Or would it still need a separate server & SAN software?
REPLY – the QNAP is a server. The software is built in. It’s part of the purchase price.

Please let me make this clear. There is a fantasy that you just buy a box, plug in all your computers, and then BAM – you have shared storage. It does not work this way. When you buy a pre fab wonderful system from Lumaforge, Studio Network Solutions, etc. it comes with SUPPORT. Thats what you are paying for. When you buy a QNAP or Synology – there is no setup support. You have to figure it out yourself or you have to hire someone to help you.

If you want my references in Australia, just email me and I will send them to you.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com