My NAS goal is to not make Bob Zelin upset

[Bob Zelin]

upset me ? Why would you think that ☺

the TVS-873e is great. Instead of getting TWO 10G cards, get a single LAN-10G2T-X550 dual port 10G card.
Each can be assigned to each of your PC’s. And yes, if you are running Win 10, with at least x4 lane slots in the PC that are available for a NIC card, get the QNAP QXG-10G1T card. You will get the drivers to run this from the Aquantia website (this is the same chip that is used in the iMac Pro for 10G). It’s an $89 card.

As of mid January, I prefer the newer TVS-872TX, but it’s $1899 and the TVS-873e is cheaper. Make sure to get at least 8 gig of RAM, and not the 4 Gig model.

As for WD RED drives, MAKE SURE they are the WD RED Pro, as the Pro are 7200 RPM and the regular RED are 5400 RPM, which will make your TVS-873e only be able to do 450 MB/sec. And yes, you need ALL EIGHT DRIVES, and you need them now – day 1.

And you don’t need a switch.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Edan Cohen]

Thanks, Bob! You’re doing the lord’s work. I’ll update you once I’ve set this up and get it running.

[Don Walker]

[Bob Zelin] “As for WD RED drives, MAKE SURE they are the WD RED Pro, as the Pro are 7200 RPM and the regular RED are 5400 RPM, which will make your TVS-873e only be able to do 450 MB/sec.”

I don’t understand the math here. Assuming Raid 5, if you have 7 drives available for data @175MB/sec that turns out to be a theoretical 1225MB/s. Raid 6 would be 1050. Are you formatting the NAS Raid 50?

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16

[Bob Zelin]

I don’t understand the math, nor do I care (no offense).
I can tell you from practical experience. You get exactly what you said – about 1000 (1050 – whatever) – MB/sec with the better QNAP or Synology products with a 10G interface on your Mac or PC computer – if you are using (for example) a TVS-871T, TVS-872XT, TVS-1282T, TS-1677X, TS-1685. If you use one of the CHEAPER 8 bay boxes, like the TVS-873e, you don’t get this bandwidth. Specifically, if you do an 8 drive RAID 6 with a TVS-873e with QNAP QXG-10G1, you only get 500 MB/sec write, and 1000 MB/sec READ. The more expensive boxes with the same 10G card get 1000 MB/sec WRITE. If you are using a “good box” but with drives that only spin at 5400 RPM (WD RED) as opposed to 7200 RPM (WD RED Pro or Seagate Ironwolf drives) – THEN you get the 450 MB/sec Read and Write. I just did this with someone in Europe. I could not figure out why he was getting such slow speeds with the TVS-873e and the WD drives. I then looked up the model # and saw these were 5400 RPM drives (the WD RED, not the WD RED Pro, which are 7200 RPM).

This applies to every variable in the equation. If you have a “10G Network” and your network adaptor card or thunderbolt adaptor is based on an Intel X520, X540, X550 or Aquantia AQC-107, then you get this bandwidth.
But if your 10G adaptor is using a Tehuti 10G chip, then you get CRAPPY SLOW 10G speeds.

Different products have different performance. I see on the QNAP forums people crying about their slow 10G speeds when they buy the cheap QNAP boxes that have the Tehuti 10G chips, or the cheap Annapurna CPU, instead of the Intel or AMD Ryzen. Theory means nothing – all that matters is real world performance.
And the only way to find out is through clinical testing. I just install a lot of systems, and believe me – I make plenty of bad choices. That’s how I find out what does – and what does not – work.

If you want to achieve 1000 MB/sec Read/Write (900 MB/sec, whatever) – you use a “better box” (like the TVS-872XT which is currently $1899 with the 10G port) and 7200 RPM drives in a RAID 6 group, and you will get these speeds.
If you say “well – that doesn’t make sense – how come you can’t use a QNAP TS-831X 8 bay which is under $1000 with a 10G port, and get these same speeds” – I don’t know and I don’t care. It’s probably due to the Annapurna processor in these cheaper boxes.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Edan Cohen]

You upset, Bob. We literally had one job to in this thread and we failed.

[Bob Zelin]

well, I hope I did not upset you, Edan. I hope that I gave you accurate information.
What I observe, is that no matter what the “facts” are – many people feel that “theoretically, this should work”, which is often not the case. And when you present clinical evidence, they become upset (like trying to edit using thunderbolt 2 instead of 10G for multiple users).

How often have you gone to a physician, they prescribe a medicine, and it does not agree with you, or it does not work well ? Well – that physician has reps from drug companies that come into their office and say “use this, this works great for XYZ”. It comes from an accredited pharmaceutical company, so they try it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. And of course, video and computers is no where as important as medicine.

My general observation, is that there are many wonderful companies out there. But pretty much everyone makes excellent stuff, and they make some “junk”. And in defense of some of the “junk” – this junk is not junk if it is used in the recommended manner by the manufacturer. A wonderful example of this is the Studio Network Solutions Prodigy, which is a tiny 4 bay NAS. SNS makes fantastic shared storage systems, like the EVO series, but the Prodigy is their tiny entry level product that works as intended if you listen to SNS. But I have seen users purchase a SNS Prodigy, hook it up to a 24 port 10G switch, and complain that they can’t get 24 people on iMacs to be able to playback without stuttering issues. Because THOSE PEOPLE want to get the cheapest thing possible from a manufacturer that they trust. And the reality is – the more expensive stuff can outperform the cheap entry level products.

And this certainly applies to QNAP. I see people get the cheapest QNAP with 10G port, the cheapest slow drives, the cheapest switch, and say “oh – this stuff is just garbage”. Well of course it is – you bought all the wrong equipment.
Because all that matters to you is that it’s the cheapest thing you can find – and now it doesn’t work, and you want to complain to someone that you spend “all this money” and it’s not working.

I see the same thing with people that own obsolete equipment, try to do a software update or firmware update, and it doesn’t perform as well as new equipment, even though their equipment is from 2004. What can I say.
Most manufacturers ignore people like this. I just like to yell at them. They deserve to have steam come out of their ears.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Glen Carruthers]

I have similar needs to Edan. 2 PCs or 1 PC + 1 mac to share one QNAP.

The TVS-872TS does look like a worthy replacement to the wonderful TVS-871T.
But it only has one 10GbE port coming from the soldered-in Aquantia chip.
What would be the best way to network just 2 PCs to the 872TS?

Add a 10GbE NIC to the spare x4 slot (it’s PCIe3x4 from PCH)?
Would that work without the need for a switch?

Use a switch?

Somehow use Thunderbolt or a Thunderbolt to 10GbE adapter?
(I hope that suggestion does not make Bob upset )

Glen Carruthers
Cameraman/Producer
Australia

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Glen –
the TVS-872XT has 2 PCIe slots. One is taken up by a thunderbolt 3 dual port card. The slot below this is empty.
You can add a QNAP QXG-10G1T ($89) or a dual port QNAP LAN-10G2T-X550 ($359) and have more 10G ports for direct connection. Of course, the correct thing to do – which would require spending a little more ($589) is to get a small 10G switch like the QNAP QSW-1208-8C. You plug the single Aquantia 10G port on the TVS-872XT into the
QNAP switch, and now you have seven computers that you can plug into the switch, all that can connect to the QNAP TVX-872XT (which by the way, is $1899 US).

For your Win 10 PC’s, you add the QNAP QXG-10G1T card into the PCIe slot. For your Thunderbolt 3 Mac, you connect a Sonnet Solo 10G thunderbolt to 10G adaptor. For a Thunderbolt 2 computer, you connect a Sonnet Twin 10G thunderbolt to 10G adaptor. No, you can’t get the cheaper Solo 10G to work on your thunderbolt 2 computer using an adaptor cable.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Edan Cohen]

Hi Bob – what’s your email? I may be interested in having you optimize the NAS I just set up.

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Edan

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com