[Bob Zelin]

Well, I am the crazy one in this group, and my mindset is nothing like most of you. My hero’s are people like video trade author Bob Turner, storage pioneer Charles McConathy who started ProMAX, and Jack Calaway who was instrumental in helping start ISC, which became the GVG Edit Controller, and Calaway Editing.
These men DIED for our business. This was their life. They had assorted horrible health problems, and they KEPT GOING, until death. . I always tell everyone that my dream is to be at some expensive steak house in Las Vegas during NAB, and I have “the big one” – and my face lands in the plate of steak and mashed potatoes with gravy. That will be the last image of me for anyone, for eternity. Bob, dead, with gravy all over his face.

I have been moderately busy, but my business these days involves isolation (not voluntarily) with clients all over the world, while I use https://www.teamviewer.com to remote into clients to resolve their editing and storage issues. I currently live in tourist town Orlando, Florida, and I have no fear of Coronavirus. I just cancelled my Las Vegas reservations today, and only because everything is closed in Las Vegas. I had the tickets – I would have gone anyway.

At this point – I realize – all that matters is what we do – we make television, films, movies, etc.
And I have the same feeling toward people in the audio industry. That is life. That is what is important in life. If “we” didn’t exist (the musicians, the actors, the writers, the dancers, directors, composers, the set designers, the wardrobe people, the audio mixers, the cameramen, the grips, the gaffers, the craft service people, and of course, the editors, color graders, assistants, graphics artists, 3D animators, etc, etc) – well, we would all be living in a cave, hunting for fish and squirrels, and trying to make the best of it. If there is no “entertainment” there is no life.

If everyone involved in the entertainment industry was involved in finding the cure for cancer, we would all be healthy, and we would all be miserable. We are what makes the world go around.
So stop all this whining, and get back to work.

Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

We are a small Post-Production and we would like to upgrade our network (we still use single hard drives).

We are looking to implement a network Storage for at least 6 Workstations (2 iMac Pro, 1 iMac, 1MacPRo 2013 and 2 PC)

we mainly deal with Raw files and large projects but my biggest concern is the Film Scanner which provides really HUGE files (1,6To for 20 min in DPX film scan, and 400Go/20 min in ProRess 4444 ).

Regarding the NAS, our first choice would be the Qnap TVS-1282T3 (I7-64Go) with 8 Iron Wolf Pro, 2 NVM and 4 SSD for caching

REPLY – the TVS-1282T3 is way too small for what you want to do. If you want 40G ethernet, you need to consider a larger QNAP (TS-1683XU-RP or TS-1677XU-RP), and this should be filled with SSD drives only. Eight 7200 RPM drives will max out at about 1100 MB/sec total aggregate bandwidth, and a single 40G connection from a Mac will give you 2200 MB/sec. That would even max out a 16 bay QNAP with 7200 RPM drives. With a 10G connection, you will get about 800 MB/sec from the Mac’s, and about 1000 MB/sec from the Win 10 PC’s. For SIX users running at this bandwidth, the TVS-1282T3 will choke.

– What is the maximum internal capacity storage (excepting for nvm, ssd and expansion)?

REPLY – 16 TB Seagate Ironwolf drives is the max.

– Can we use 8x 16to (128 To), 14To (112To) or it’s limited to 12To (96 to)?

REPLY – yes, you can use 16 TB, but these are 7200 RPM drives. In a 16 bay, you will max out at about 1600 – 1800 MB/sec with 7200 RPM drives. If you want greater total aggregate bandwidth (or if you want 40G ethernet) you need SSD only.

– Can we use a Raid 0 on the TVS and use a Qnap TS-830x over 10Gbe for redundancy? (we already own one and we know it’s not a big deal)…

REPLY – I never heard of a TS-830. RAID 0 is crazy. Drives fail. You will be screwed.

Concerning the speed, it’s a bit tricky, using TB3 on every workstation would be great, but the problem is the distance, we need at least 20M TB3 cable but I couldn’t find any Optical TB3 cable…

REPLY – so you use 10G with Cat6a cable for up to 100 meters, or 40G with a QSFP+ fiber cable, but don’t waste your time with 7200 RPM SATA drives – it will be a waste of money for 40G.

I was wondering if we could add a 40Gbe card expansion from Qnap to match the TB3 speed, of course, we will need a 40Gbe switch, a couple of adapters for iMacs (ATTO ThunderLink® NQ 3402), some internal cards for PCs. (the price will exponentially raise)

– Does 40Gbe are worth the price?

REPLY – the SSD’s are the expensive part here – not the 40G card.

– Do you have any suggestions?
– Should we stick with 10Gbe bandwidth knowing the crazy files sizes?

REPLY – I have no idea. For 4K editing, 10G is what everyone is using. For 6 editors all doing 4K, and 8 bay is too small. You will not have enough bandwidth for this, AND the film scanner.

For 10Gbe we considered the Qnap QSW-1208-8C switch, Qnap QNA-T310G1T for TB3/RJ45 adapters, QNAP QXG-10G1T cards for PCs.

REPLY – You are on a tight budget, and you want to do everything. Sorry – you can’t do it.
But a decent switch like a Netgear XS708T that will at least support Link aggregation. But since you want to do the QNAP AND 6 editors and the Film Scanner – and you will want link aggregation for speed to the switch, this requires 2 ports, so an 8 port switch is not acceptable. Get the 16 port Netgear XS716T.

You are not going to accomplish this on a tiny budget.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

replies below –

We converted the station from a couple SANs with a combined storage of 100 Tb to an Editshare system with a storage capacity of approximately 75 TB. Currently we are at 53% full. Editshare support has been less than confidence inspiring on what appears to us to be a configuration issue. To be fair, it may be outside of their box and therefore responsibility.

The Editshare system is connected directly to the XS728 T via CAT 6A cabling. As for the number of drives, I see 16 active drive bays. Each Editshare box is using two ports on the box as well as the switch.

REPLY – Editshare makes an excellent product. I use the Netgear XS728T all the time. The two ports on the Editshare are link aggregated to the 2 ports on the Netgear XS728T. I assume that this has been set on both the Editshare and the Netgear XS728T for LACP which is a setting in the LAG menu on the switch. A 16 bay with all 16 drives means that you will have plenty of speed.

We have nine Win 10 editing PCs connected directly to the switch, also with CAT 6A cabling. Each PC has an AQtion-107-12A-SBA 10GBase-T NIC.

REPLY – The Aquantia cards (now owned by Marvell) are excellent cards. The AQC-107 is the same chip that is in the iMac Pro and 2019 Mac Pro. You should be seeing about 900 – 1000 MB/sec provided that your Aquantia card is in a x4 lane PCIe slot or greater on your Win 10 PC’s. If you are in a x1 lane slot, you will get crappy speeds.

SO – what are your speeds ? I assume that you know, since you compared it to an 8G fiber channel system in your original post. How many MB/sec are you getting. What does AJA System Test or Blackmagic Disk Speed Test report ?

As mentioned, we also have a couple lower-power users and techs separated out via some general Netgear 1 Gbe switches.

REPLY – there is no problem putting 1G clients on the XS728T switch.

I’ll ask to have a transfer speed test done. But we also see a lot of temporary freeze/lock-up happening while editing.

REPLY – I am not sure of what editing software you are using. If you are using Adobe Premiere, you should make sure that your Media Cache folders are empty, as if they are filled with crap, you will get stuttering playback, even on the best system.

This is my suggestion – I don’t know if you are qualified to do this, or if you will need assistance from Editshare to do this (or if you have an Editshare contractor like Yates Parks in NY City).
This is what I would do –
bypass the switch. Delete the LAG from the EditShare, and plug in one of your computers with a 10G connection directly to the Editshare (if you have SFP+ on the Editshare and 10GbaseT Cat 6 on your Aquantia card, this will be impossible for you to do – I am hoping that you have 10Gbase-T ports on the Editshare). So you plug it in directly to the computer, mount the drive, and do a speed test . Is it faster ? Do you get around 900 MB/sec ? That will tell us if the problem is the EditShare or the XS728T switch.

I recently worked on a system, where the problem was the switch. I did a firmware update on the XS728T switch, and a factory default reset, and everything started to work. All the speeds came back up.

Everything in line is a variable.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

you are not describing your system, so I cannot help you with this, Don.
You have an XS728T. What is your server ? How many drives in your server ?
What are the 10G client computers – Thunderbolt 2 Mac, Thunderbolt 3 Mac, Win 10 PC ? New 2019 Mac Pro ? Exactly what 10G adapters are you using ? Sonnet, Promise, CalDigit, OWC, QNAP, ATTO ?

Yes, all of this stuff makes a huge difference. If you have at least an 8 bay shared storage system with a 10G port in it, you should be getting at least 800 MB/sec (unless you have a Sonnet Solo 10G T2, which is only 400 MB/sec).

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

I think that many of you WANT NAB to be cancelled. Seems that everyone is excited that it might be cancelled.
As Steve Conner mentioned – I live in Orlando, Florida, around the corner from Universal Studios, and about 2 miles away from the giant Orlando Convention center. Right outside my door is “restaurant row”, which services all these convention people and tourists. I continue to eat there, and the restaurants are all crowded (someone is saying “you’ll be sorry !).

So I should be dead from Coronavirus, long before NAB starts this April. And yes, conventions are being cancelled here – part of the panic. In the mean time – life goes on here as normal. Still can’t find a spot in the grocery store parking lot (and it’s not from people stocking up on water, toilet paper, and hand sanitizer).

Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Thank you Chris – talk with you soon.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Hello –
I took Bill Davis’ post to heart. He frequents places that service people in their 70’s and 80’s. We have friends that play music at the Moose Lodge, and Elks Club and the Fraternal Order of Eagles, and when we go, we are the youngest people that are there (and I am 64 and my wife is 60).

LET ME TELL YOU – I like going to local neighborhood places that are not tourist traps.
When I go to Vegas, I will be going here – the food is AMAZING –

https://www.yelp.com/biz/asian-bbq-and-noodle-las-vegas

if you look at the second review, you will see that the reviewer will cite how horrible the cleanliness or heath care that this restaurant is responsible for. The other reviews are wonderful – and my review is wonderful. I AM GOING. It’s great, and it’s cheap.

SO – what does this mean – does this mean that when I get back from NAB 2020, I am going to infect all of Orlando with Coronavirus ? Will I be “patient zero” and be blamed for the deaths of thousands of people ? REMEMBER – we go to see our friends play music at the Moose Lodge and Elks Club and Fraternal Order of Eagles all the time – and these are vunerable 70 and 80 year old people. Will I be the one responsible for killing all these people ?

I can only say this –
I AM GOING TO NAB. I always go to NAB. I will not be left behind. I will know all the latest technology. If I die in the process – well – so be it. There ain’t no 20 – 30 year old that is getting ahead of me, just because of a life threatening disease. I would rather be dead. What’s the alternative – “well – you did not go to NAB, and there are now other guys in their early 30’s who know more than you do – and you can’t compete with them – BUT YOU SAVED THOUSANDS OF LIVES”. No sir – I would rather go to hell.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

everyone will hate me once I respond to this (many already hate me) –
long before Coronavirus – if I was sick, if I had the flu – I would SHOW UP SICK to any job, because if your equipment was not working – I WAS GOING TO MAKE SURE that your equipment was working when I left. I almost NEVER (except the one time I got Pneumonia) did not show up when people had equipment problems. Who cares if you and your family got my germs – at least your video equipment was working, and your company was able to continue to make money. Perhaps I got this attitude from growing up in NY City – and being in the subways, where there were ALWAYS sick people sneezing and coughing, and I always got sick (being in these confined spaces commuting from Queens to NY City) – but that never stopped me. And when I got sick – I showed up to your place, and I did my job.

I expect many to say “wow – you are sick in the head if you did this” – but that’s what I did. And that’s what I still do. Your facility needs to be 100% functional – no matter what. No matter who dies in the process. I always say (when I am setting up new computers) – “you see this Energy Saver function in System Preferences> Energy Saver – you TURN IT TO NEVER – because Video Editors are not going to save the planet. We cannot have our computers go to sleep during a render, because if it’s a matter of saving the planet, or not seeing the TV show – the TV show WINS – screw the future generations !”.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

well – I live in Orlando, Florida – 2 minutes from Universal Studios and 15 minutes from Disney. There are more international tourists here, than will ever be in Las Vegas – so I AM GOING to NAB 2020.
Disney is not shutting down, Universal is not shutting down, Sea World is not shutting down, and all the neighborhood restaurants that I frequent (which include the Orlando Convention center which is 10 minutes from me) is not shutting down. So all of this is “child’s play” compared to what could happen here in Orlando – so I AM GOING to NAB.

With that said – does anyone on this forum know where I can get a liver transplant ?

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com

[Bob Zelin]

Why 10G ? Bandwidth. Your 1G network can only do about 100 MB/sec per client. A 10G network will be able to do 800 – 900 MB/sec per client. So you won’t get stuttering with 4K and 8K playback.
You should have a dedicated 10G switch.

If you are relying on your IT department, instead of some moron like me, it will be a mess.
I don’t even see the RS2416+ being sold anymore. Where are you getting this from.
The current model is the RS3617xs+, or the RS4017xs+

I just saw that the NON enterprise series is now the RS2418+. You are showing me old model numbers.

Why don’t you contact me. I actually do this for a living –
Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com