Andy Patterson
Forum Replies Created
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[Eric Santiago] “I’ve been lucky enough to teach both Premiere and FCPX at an Adult College.
I try to expose both and give each its merits and failures.
In the end the student gets to decide.
Its still 50/50 from my experience.”
I agree. I would teach them both if given the chance. In the end teachers need to do what is best for the students as apposed to pushing their biases. I am not a fan of Vegas Video but others like it. Same could be said of Hash’s Animation Master. I wish Fast’s/Pinnacle’s/Avid’s Liquid edition was still around.
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[Scott Witthaus] “[andy patterson] “Why not teach Avid, Premiere and FCPX and let the students decide which one they like best? Avid, Premiere and FCPX will all get better and it would not hurt to learn all three.”
I have 15 weeks a semester so I can’t take the time to teach all three. We have a university site license for Lynda.com (only took me three years to get the university to agree to get that!) and if they want to use Premier, they can learn it there. Not much need for Media Composer unless they are going into broadcast, which I have not had one go that way yet.”
You should be able to teach all three unless you are only a part time instructor. In that case you would have do decide if you have the adequate amount of time necessary to fully teach the students properly. At the very least the school should have a trained Premiere Pro and Avid editor. There are some cool things you can do with Premiere and AE that should be taught in class. The students may have questions beyond Lynda.com.
[Scott Witthaus] “I have all three, used all three and still use two of the three. X, for what I do and teach, is superior. So, in the limited time I have with each class, that’s what I teach. No apologies, I just feel this is the best way.”
Your feelings for FCPX are irrelevant. Premiere, Avid and AE are out there. In fact I know of a TV station in Chicago that uses Edius. Oprah Winfrey’s own Harpo productions used to use Edius as well (they still might). I could see only teaching FCPX if FCPX was the only NLE being used in a professionals environment but that is not the case.
Back to my original question. If Blackmagic Design released a new NLE that was free and identical to FCXP with a few more features than FCPX and it worked with OS X and Windows would you tell the school to ditch FCPX for Blackmagic’s new NLE? Would you only teach one NLE or would you maybe find time to teach two NLE? If you continue to only teach one would it be FCPX or the Blackmagic Design software? The answer to those questions is what I really want to know.
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[Scott Witthaus] “[Oliver Peters] “No offense meant, but doesn’t your post also show your bias for X over Premiere Pro? ”
No offense taken. And my perceived bias is based on my experience with both products and who my students are. I am there to teach my students the craft of visual storytelling. Concept through post. In my mind, X is a superior product for editorial and that is what I teach them. So if that is a bias, then yes, I am biased.”
As you stated, in your mind X is superior. Why not teach Avid, Premiere and FCPX and let the students decide which one they like best? Avid, Premiere and FCPX will all get better and it would not hurt to learn all three. Keep in mind FCPX is not cross platform for both Mac and Windows.
Let us suppose Blackmagic Design released a new program for “free” that is exactly like FCPX but with a few more features and it works on both Mac and PC. Would you tell the school to drop FCP X in favor of the new program from Blackmagic Design? Would you insist the school purchase Macs and PCs?
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It doesn’t matter to me if every film this year was cut on Avid, FCPX or Premiere Pro. If a feature film was cut using Premiere Pro and the producers and editors stated that Adobe Anywhere helped speed up the process that would be good for them and their workflow but it may or may not be a reason for others to opt for Premiere Pro. Some may opt for Premiere Pro for it’s integration with AE. Some may opt for FCPX because of the low price of $300.00. I wouldn’t switch editing software based on what Hollywood does. The Adobe CS package worked great for me in 2009. Premiere Pro was considered a joke back then but for people who actually used it it worked great.
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A mediocre 4.2 GHZ Kaby Lake CPU with 16 GB of RAM and a GTX 1080 would probably work just fine for your needs. Having said that wait until the Zen CPUs form AMD hit the market next month. The Zen CPUs may or may not be a game changer for video editors.
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[Joe Marler] “Re why doesn’t Apple just build an ATX-form machine, one reason is they are looking to the future. ATX is an old paradigm rooted in the 1990s, and if modern designers were approaching the task today without that historical baggage, they’d do something different. You can see some discussion of this by industry professionals on RealWorldTech.com: https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=163257&curpostid=164090“
ATX maybe old but it still works well. Keep in mind we went form ISA to PCI to AGP to PCIE. The ATX form factor did not change but the technology of computers has. I think it is possible that in the year 2025 the ATX computer may be a thing of the past.
[Joe Marler] “Each Thunderbolt 3 bus supports bi-directional transfers at 40 gigabits/sec (80 gigbits/sec total), which is faster than 4-lane PCIe 3.0, and real-world tests have shown that transfer rates above that haven’t yielded much practical benefit (for GPUs): https://www.tested.com/tech/457440-theoretical-vs-actual-bandwidth-pci-expre... That said the PCIe interface (as opposed to a row of PCIe card slots) is definitely useful for high-speed SSD.”
I tend to agree. Thunderbolt will get even better. In another 2-3 years SSD will replace the mechanical HD. Things will change but the 2013 Mac Pro was not idea for a workstation at the time it was released. I am not saying it does not work but there should have been an option to get dual 8 core CPUs and one D-700 graphics card. PCIE slots and a few expansion bays would have been nice in 2013. In the year 2025 that may not be the case.
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[Bill Davis] “Rendering is now something I almost never think about.
My timeline works flawlessly without it, and when it’s time to finally do it, 95% of the time, I discover my background rendering has done it while I wasn’t thinking about it.Computing in 2017 is quite a bit different than it was in 1997. YMMV.”
I am not sure when Fast Multimedia introduced background rendering. I know they had it in 1999. Keep in mind that in 2003 Pinnacle/Fast Multimedia’s Liquid Edition was able to use the graphics card just like FCPX and Premiere Pro CC. I used to have Liquid Edition. It was a good program. It had CPU Effects and GPU Effects. If you had dual Xeons you might want to use CPU effects. If you had a $300.00 graphics card you might want to use GPU effects. You could use a combination of the two. Things maybe different from 1997 but I used to edit like you about 15 years ago. With Media Encoder the need for background rendering from the timeline is not as important as it once was since you can edit projects while other projects are rendering in the background. What would Liquid Edition be like today if Avid did not end of life it in 2007? I imagine it would kick ass.
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[Eric Santiago] “Sorry to hijack this thread, since we have a few seasoned DIY PC builders here, what’s your opinion on these Nvidia cards?
I am looking at an HP Z840 and they are offering these:
NVIDIA® Quadro® K4200 (4 GB)
NVIDIA® Quadro® K5200 (8 GB)
NVIDIA® Quadro® M4000 (8 GB)
NVIDIA® Quadro® M5000 (8 GB)
NVIDIA® Quadro® K6000 (12 GB)”You might find a Youtube video review of one of those cards. Keep in mind the AMD Zen CPUs will be out next month. The Zen CPUs may or may not be a serious game changer but I hope they are.
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[Tom Sefton] “Andy, stop being passive aggressive and snarky. I asked honest questions using the biggest footage available that would give benchmarks on rendering and editing that could show how how your homemade rig would shine.”
I am not being passive aggressive or snarky. I don’t mind you asking questions but I do not have 8K video clips to test out on my system. I wish I did. If you send it I will test.
[Tom Sefton] “Ive done 10 mins of searching around and found a few benchmarks for high res export from homemade rigs vs new Mac Pro or MacBook Pro and it’s enlightening. Thanks for the offer of testing the footage – let’s park that one for now.”
I am glad you found what you were looking for. Having said that at the time Pixel Corps and FCP.uk did there testing there were $1,600.00 PCs that could play the native Red One 4K R3D files at full resolution even though a $7,000.00 Mac Pro could not. Perhaps if the Mac Pro could have been configured with dual 8 Core Xeons and a single D 700 graphic cards it could have. Will a $6,800.00 PC play 8K at full resolution? I think the 16 core 32 thread AMD Zen processors will be a game changer but who knows for sure? Having said PCs will always have more options and offer more computing power until Apple offers a generic ATX workstation (they won’t).
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[Bill Davis] “Sorry, but you’re going to be hard pressed to tell me that doing the research and comparison to know that all the stuff on the left in this picture, is precisely what’s BEST for your DYI rig config is going to get done in 30 minutes.”
Why would I research all the products on the left in your photo? That would be stupid. I don’t research products I am not going to buy. Do you? Why would I? If I need a RAM module I just get the least expensive provided it is gskill, PNY, Crucial etc. It takes a whopping two minutes to look up an 8 GB RAM module on new egg. I am only going to look up what I need. You would spend the same amount of time if you need to upgrade the RAM in you iMac or Macbook Pro. If I need a floppy drive or a USB card reader I can just get the least expensive. They will work just fine. If I was to build a computer today I would just get an i7 Kaby Lake. No time wasted researching anything from AMD and I already now I don’t want a core i3 or Core i5. Once AMD releases the Zen CPUs things will change. I have used the same case for 7 years. I have used monitors for 7 years. We PC users can reuse the parts when we get a new MOBO and CPU. With an iMac you have to buy every part new. Even your screen.
[Bill Davis] “I totally get the satisfaction of spending those hours, days, weeks or months to educate yourself about how many Megahertz are best and which power supply is beefy enough to handle the RAM load. But you’re never going to convince me that’s a 3o minute gig.”
My prior comments address this but I am sure you would be forced to make decisions if deciding between an iMac and the Mac Pro. Do you want 4 core or 12 core? AMD D 500s or AMD 700s. You have to research external RAID systems if you are going to be editing 4K. I can just get 6 inexpensive 4 TB SATA Seagate drives. That is 24 TB of RAID for less than $600.00. I would take two minutes to order.
I would put zero time into choosing my RAID how much time would you spend researching an external RAID?
[Bill Davis] “It’s a lifetime gig. And if you’re comfortable acting as both editor AND systems integrator – the approach is PERFECT for you. It’s just honestly a NIGHTMARE for many of us.”
I have had many Mac users tell me they wish they knew how to build a computer. For many people it can be scary.
[Bill Davis] “Custom building made sense to me back in the day when without optimizing every single component, you couldn’t get the job done. But those days are gone. I’ll totally admit you can get more “bang for the buck” with the DIY rig. The thing is, I’m not even close to convinced that I need anymore “bang” at all.”
I would tend to agree. My GTX 650 Ti and 3.4 GHZ Haswell can edit 4K just fine. I imagine it could edit 8K (not full resolution) but I do not know for sure.
[Bill Davis] “I can run buckets of work through my practice without blinking. The hardware I use, a MacBook Pro actually – (lame as it may be to others) is orders of magnitude faster and more fluid than any other system I’ve ever cut on for the past 20 years.”
I doubt your Macbook will play 8K at full resolution. Tom Sefton has to be able to play at full 8K resolution.
[Bill Davis] “And I paid my bills for ALL those years. So I’m delighted to trade the former time spent reading component specs and figuring out which card is the best for the next 6 months – for more time playing with the dog.”
I can play with the dog as much as you Bill if not more. I don’t put lot of time into researching computer parts. Just because an ATX computer can accept all the generic parts on the makret does not mean I research each and every part when I go to buy a RAM module. I don’t doubt I spend less time buying a RAM module than you do. I think you would have to find out the specs for your laptop first in order to buy RAM. I know my specs already. Want to race Bill?
[Bill Davis] “That I can edit anywhere and leave the desk behind, is just extra goodness.”
I don’t doubt your laptop works great for your needs but I think Tom Sefton would need to see a video of you editing 8K at full resolution on your laptop before he could buy a laptop.