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2013 Franken Mac Pro Tube – FCPX editor upgrades 2013 Mac Pro
Switching from Premiere Pro back to FCPX and no longer willing to wait for Apple to update the 2013 Mac Pro, he modes with new CPU and external GPU. He says he actually found it easy to upgrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNd5_kxpPc4
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54 Replies
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The guy seemed honest and sincerer. Having said that the end result is bigger than a mATX computer without true PCIE slots or expansion bays. Expansion bays can be used for card readers, Blu-ray players hot swappable drive bays. The video below shows some cool gadgets at about five minutes in.
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[andy patterson] “without true PCIE slots “
Perhaps you aren’t aware of what Thunderbolt is.With Thunderbolt one can move all one’s expansion from desktop to laptop or any other Thunderbolt computer in the facility. Much more cost effecting.
It only get’s better with Thunderbolt 3 which will have the bandwidth to support external GPUs.
I even have the freedom to daisy chain with Thunderbolt. Can’t do that with built in PCIe slots.
Mac run Windows too. Once external GPUs are fully supported, They’ll be that much more freedom especially for those who may want to use FCPX but prefer working in Windows for other software.
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[Craig Seeman] “[andy patterson] “without true PCIE slots ”
Perhaps you aren’t aware of what Thunderbolt is.”I am aware more than you. In the video the guy stated he knows he will not get the full benefits of the graphics card because Thunderbolt 2 does not have the bandwidth. Thunderbolt 2 is the same as PCIE 2.0 at four lanes. Many Graphics cards can exceed that. Thunderbolt 3 is better but the Mac Pro still does not have Thunderbolt 3.
[Craig Seeman] ”
It only get’s better with Thunderbolt 3 which will have the bandwidth to support external GPUs.”Thunderbolt 3 is good but it does not have the same amount of bandwidth as PCIE 3.0 at 16 lanes.
[Craig Seeman] “I even have the freedom to daisy chain with Thunderbolt. Can’t do that with built in PCIe slots.”
PC users can use Thunderbolt 3 as well so I don’t see your point or how you can do something I cannot. Having said that your are confused about the band width. Some things can be daisy chained others cannot because of bandwidth limitation of Thunderbolt 2. The Mac Pro only has Thunderbolt 2 not Thunderbolt 3 . Even with Thunderbolt 3 you wouldn’t want to daisy chain two GTX 1080s. All the PCs at the time of the Mac Pro 2013 had PCIE 3.0. Why not have PCIE and Thunderbolt 3?
[Craig Seeman] “Mac run Windows too. Once external GPUs are fully supported, They’ll be that much more freedom especially for those who may want to use FCPX but prefer working in Windows for other software.”
A GTX 1080 will exceed the specs of Thunderbolt 2. Had the Mac Pro had PCIE slots you might have been able to add a Thunderbolt 3 PCIE cards. Do you kind of see my point?
Having said that why would I want my graphics card outside of my computer? Why not just get an ITX case?
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[andy patterson] “Thunderbolt 2 is the same as PCIE 2.0 at four lanes. Many Graphics cards can exceed that. Thunderbolt 3 is better but the Mac Pro still does not have Thunderbolt 3.”
I think his point is that he can extend the life of his Mac Pro, not that it will match current technology.
[andy patterson] “Thunderbolt 3 is good but it does not have the same amount of bandwidth as PCIE 3.0 at 16 lanes. “
But perhaps there’s “good enough” for vast middle of niche market.
[andy patterson] “PC users can use Thunderbolt 3 as well so I don’t see your point or how you can do something I cannot.”
And PCs got there first this time. But depending on the number of devices you need to use and the need to move them from machine to machine, one may have a bit more flexibility given the number of ports.
[andy patterson] “Some things can be daisy chained others cannot because of bandwidth limitation of Thunderbolt 2. “
Which is why the number of ports is of value. A PC with one TB2 port will hit that limit sooner.
What happens with the next Mac Pro (if there is one) is speculative but my guess it’ll have multiple TB3 ports (and admittedly no idea how they’ll handle controllers/busses).[andy patterson] “Even with Thunderbolt 3 you wouldn’t want to daisy chain two GTX 1080s. “
If there is a new Mac Pro I’m sure they’ll be multipole TB3 ports and value in daisy chaining.
[andy patterson] “All the PCs at the time of the Mac Pro 2013 had PCIE 3.0. Why not have PCIE and Thunderbolt 3? “
That would have been nice. I’m not sure the demand was there. It seems like a niche within a niche in the “professional” video market. The demand for high powered workstations is, at best stagnant. Apple is not pursuing that.
[andy patterson] “Having said that why would I want my graphics card outside of my computer? Why not just get an ITX case?”
Because you’d be able to move it from desktop to laptop as needed.
What does the median professional need? TB3 may be enough. Multiple TB3 ports may have more use especially when the same professional may need to move from desktop to laptop and may want to bring along eGPU, RAID, maybe Video in devices and maybe the ability to hook up whatever the client tosses in the mix without starting to unhook things to free up ports.
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[Craig Seeman] “[andy patterson] “Some things can be daisy chained others cannot because of bandwidth limitation of Thunderbolt 2. ”
Which is why the number of ports is of value. A PC with one TB2 port will hit that limit sooner.”
But there are PCS with Thunderbolt 3 so why talk about PCs with Thunderbolt 2? I think some PCs can probably get a Thunderbolt 3 PCIE card.
[Craig Seeman] “What happens with the next Mac Pro (if there is one) is speculative but my guess it’ll have multiple TB3 ports (and admittedly no idea how they’ll handle controllers/busses).”
PCs in 2018 will probably have two Thunderbolt controllers and two Thunderbolt ports. That along with two USB 3.1 ports will be more than enough bandwidth because the PC’s Graphics card is PCIE
[Craig Seeman] “[andy patterson] “All the PCs at the time of the Mac Pro 2013 had PCIE 3.0. Why not have PCIE and Thunderbolt 3? ”
That would have been nice. I’m not sure the demand was there. It seems like a niche within a niche in the “professional” video market. The demand for high powered workstations is, at best stagnant. Apple is not pursuing that.”
Generic ATX computers are inexpensive to build. Apple does not want inexpensive products
[Craig Seeman] “[andy patterson] “Having said that why would I want my graphics card outside of my computer? Why not just get an ITX case?”
Because you’d be able to move it from desktop to laptop as needed.”
If you have your RAID, card reader, Blu-ray burner and GPU outside of the case it just ends up looking cluttered and taking up space. Not to mention you will not have the functionality of an ATX computer. Also in order to use an external GPU you will need to be plugged into an AC outlet. Why not just use the desktop PC? My desktop PC would be more portable than a laptop with an external RAID and external GPU. All my stuff is internal. No proprietary AC adapters and cable to worry about.
Having said that Thunderbolt is a good technology to have.
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Removable raids and GPUs are brilliant for DIT work and any projects where multiple users want to access the raid at once or share the GPU for the intensive parts of a project. One removable high speed GPU could go to set for dailies with a DIT and then come back to studio for the grade.
I really want to see a new Mac Pro, but still would love to hear what performance people get from their maxed out PC workstations when it comes for 6 or 8K raw workflows.
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk -
[Tom Sefton] “Removable raids and GPUs are brilliant for DIT work and any projects where multiple users want to access the raid at once or share the GPU for the intensive parts of a project. One removable high speed GPU could go to set for dailies with a DIT and then come back to studio for the grade.”
You have to factor in the price for the external RAID enclosures and GPU enclosure. Also ten people cannot share the same external GPU simultaneously. Also what if you want to take the external 16 terabyte RAID home and another worker needs to take it home? You cannot both take it home. Same could be said about the external GPU. External RAID systems are expensive internal RAID systems are not. Also depending on the files server (external RAID) and how many people are on it you might get dropped frames. My PC could connect up to a file server as well. It would be good to have the files on the PC and the file server both. Why not let all the PCs have a back up? You can install a 16 terabyte internal RAID for about $360.00. You could do a 8 terabyte RAID for about $220.00. It would be safer and you would not have to worry about dropped frames or performance loss if ten people at work are using the file server. Having said that what is the difference between lugging around an external GPU and external RAID vs lugging around an ATX computer?
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i can hire out all my raids and get good prices for them as DIT kit. External raids can be used for capturing direct from redmags. 3 of the raids we have are more than 64TB in size and are more than fast enough via 10gIgE to let multiple users access data without drop frames. The point about the GPU is exactly that it is portable and can be used via a laptop or at home by a desktop. Specifically so that a GPU can be hot swapped from DIT to grade on-set to start building LUTs once dailies have been made.
Being Mac based, I’m still curious about PC performance.
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk -
[Tom Sefton] “i can hire out all my raids and get good prices for them as DIT kit. External raids can be used for capturing direct from redmags. 3 of the raids we have are more than 64TB in size and are more than fast enough via 10gIgE to let multiple users access data without drop frames.”
I know what you are saying can be done but what is the price? There are other companies making cost effective devices to capture R3D and 4K Pro Res.
[Tom Sefton] ” The point about the GPU is exactly that it is portable and can be used via a laptop or at home by a desktop. Specifically so that a GPU can be hot swapped from DIT to grade on-set to start building LUTs once dailies have been made.”
How is lugging around an external RAID and external GPU portable? Can you fit the external RAID in your pocket? Can you fit the external GPU enclosure in your pocket? How is that less expensive and more portable than a mATX computer?
[Tom Sefton] “Being Mac based, I’m still curious about PC performance.”
The performance kicks ass. I can build an 8 Core i7 systems with a GTX 1080 for under $2,000.00. That $2,000.00 computer could hold it’s own against the $3,000.00 entry level Mac Pro with an external RAID. Your external 16 terabyte RAID will not be cheap. As I stated internal RAIDS are inexpensive. Having said that the AMD Zen CPUs will probably bring down the price of the Intel CPUs.
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The cost of each raid is £5-£7k but you can get £100-£130 per day for hires. Nobody wants to hire a full machine for DIT, they want the raid only, in a flight case that can be shipped to set and then back to edit. Same goes for GPU – the red rocket x isn’t relevant anymore but a GPU inside an external enclosure with thunderbolt 2 or 3 is available from most hire companies for DIT and post work. It’s portable because it’s light and can go inside a rucksack.
What devices are capturing r3d? Either you use the usb3 or thunderbolt 3 device that red sells or you can put a single bay inside your gtech raid and capture to your storage that way.
If there wasn’t a use for external 80TB raids nobody would be building and selling them. They are, they work great and they give great performance with replaceable drives and can be networked if required. I understand internal raids, but someone needs to build that for me or I buy it with a dell or HP machine and the cost goes up.
How is the performance kick ass? Quantify it. Put some 8K or 6K raw footage on a timeline and play it back. What resolution are you playing back in premiere – 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 or do you get full? From 8K raw how long does it take to spit out a prores or dnxhd file of the same length – say one minute. How many nodes do you get in resolve for colour correction? I’ve written extensively about the performance with the new Mac Pro and 4K raw, and I’m finding That 6K is possible, but 8K sluggish on the new Mac Pro. Yes everyone will scream about proxIRS but I just want to benchmark from the highest resolution and quality.
I’m not PC bashing. I want to understand what performance you get with PC over the new Mac Pro. Yes the new Mac Pro is more expensive, but I get tech support with Apple care and immediate repairs or replacement. I’m not tech savvy enough to spend time fixing a PC I’ve built myself – I want either dell or HP to offer me tech support with the better performance. From what I’ve seen, a HP machine with top spec isn’t cheaper than a new Mac Pro but I don’t know how quick it is.
It all adds up to a new Mac Pro being very much wanted and needed – just perhaps with a few more connection ports and the ability to add a second ssd and upgradeable gpu…
Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk
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