Alex Elkins
Forum Replies Created
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[Rosie Walunas] “So blending / ghosting is ‘okay’ for color correction?”
Well like I said, in my experience it’s not a particularly nice effect. However, from a purely technical point of view there’s nothing to say you shouldn’t. It isn’t going to affect the colours, you’ll just have the occasional frame with a rather unappealing frame blend going on. As an editor and colourist myself I’d like to think I’d notice it straight away, but most people viewing it probably won’t (or if they do, they won’t care), so depending on your audience it may be absolutely fine.
[Rosie Walunas] “Does this mean you do agree that the frame rate should be converted to the project’s frame rate before editing.”
Yes. I agree with you, particularly as FCP/QuickTime does such a woeful job of the frame rate conversion. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should! I’ve heard (though not tested) that Avid does a much better job.
Out of interest, what frame rates are you converting from and to? If it’s just 23.98 to 25 you may still get away with the Cinema Tools method when people are talking. 23.98 or 25 to 29.97 might be too obvious. Do some testing – perhaps you could use Cinema Tools for some of the material and do the frame blending for everything else.
Incidentally, you mentioned that you used MPEG Streamclip for the conversion. You might also want to try running it through Compressor with ‘Frame Controls’ turned on. It should give you slightly better results. Check out this article for some further information on it if you’re unfamiliar: https://www.digitalrebellion.com/blog/posts/using_frame_controls_in_compressor
None of these methods will be better than a hardware conversion, which will be completely imperceptible. All post houses that offer the service will charge per second/minute of footage. If you have the budget you might want to consider converting just the talking head material with them (or the whole lot – go wild!). It’s not particularly expensive in my experience – I’m in London and have used a company called Soho Transfer in the past.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
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Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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Funny, someone else was asking me exactly this question earlier today.
[Rosie Walunas] “Please advise on what ‘is best’ “
What is best is really neither blending nor repeated frames – converting frame rates through a dedicated hardware converter will do all sorts of clever things to ensure that the results are seamless, whereas doing it using software is always a compromise.
If a software conversion is your only option then (depending on the content) I’d be inclined to say blending. In my experience though, neither looks particularly good.Another way you could approach this, again content-dependant, would be to use Cinema Tools to conform your material to the desired frame rate. Cinema Tools doesn’t convert the files at all, it just tells QuickTime to play them back at a different speed. This can work really well if you haven’t got anything that specifically must be shown at exactly the correct speed (someone speaking, for example). For GV/B-roll type stuff, the slight speed change is usually completely imperceptible.
Ideally the frame rate conversions should have been done prior to editing, as you’ll now have a fairly labour intensive job to re-connect everything at the different frame rates. Of course, it’s not always possible due to time or budget restraints to do this, but it’s worth bearing in mind for future reference.
So, in order of personal preference:
Hardware conversion (google ‘video standards conversion’ or ‘Teranex conversion’)
Cinema Tools conform (if appropriate)
Frame blending
Frame repeatingGood luck with it.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
Hi Viking,
Sorry for taking a few days to respond. It’s been very busy at work.
[viking jonsson] “Could You tell me why the pal proxies would be a problem in more technical terms so I can talk with the post-sup about this.
“It’s not that PAL is a problem as such, but basically because PAL is not based on square pixels in 4:3 or 16:9, there’s slight issue introduced if you need to create graphics or do any rough VFX during the offline, because when you then go to online, the pixel aspect ratio will not match up and you can end up having to re-scale your effects/graphics. Plus with HD you have the benefit of it being HD for the offline, i.e. better resolution. That’s never a bad thing, and offlining in HD is perfectly normal.
[viking jonsson] “Could You tell me what Your workflow would have been for this step-by-step?”
Just to clarify, am I correct in assuming that you’re shooting ARRIRAW – you must be if you’re recording 4:3 at 2K, right? If so why not record HD ProRes422 Proxy files onto SxS at the same time? That way there’s no transcoding for your offline, all your timecode matches up and it’ll work perfectly in FCP.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
[viking jonsson] “Will it be black borders on the sides of the video then?”
Yes.[viking jonsson] “Why is it going to be a problem if we go with PAL proxies?”
I can see where your post supervisor is coming from given that you’re shooting 4:3 but if it were me I’d still prefer to stay away from SD. Just too many fiddly issues with pixel aspect ratios, plus with HD you’ve at least got lots more resolution even though you’re not using the full 16:9 frame.
I’m curious, did you shoot 4:3 because the director/DP simply preferred the look for this project, or are there plans to eventually crop the frame to some form of widescreen?
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
[viking jonsson] “I was planning to make proxies in 422 LT or 422 Proxy”
That’s what I’d do.[viking jonsson] “our post-production supervisor had said something about making the proxies in PAL”
Definitely NOT what I’d do. Working in SD, especially non-square pixels, is setting yourself up for a painstakingly fiddly online process. Keep things in HD, the file sizes of ProRes Proxy will be small enough for anyone to handle.[viking jonsson] “Mpeg streamclip kills timecode so one can’t use the timecode to synk in FCP”
Absolutely right. Don’t use MPEG Streamclip for your conversions unless you fancy a lot of fiddly re-inserting of timecode tracks. I would suggest that you use Davinci Resolve Lite to run your conversions. It’s fast and free, plus you an add simple grades to everything if needed. It is essentially the modern equivalent of a telecine only much cheaper!
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
We sold our DigiBeta deck about 3 years ago and now just rent when needed. That said, we still do a fair amount of capturing and layback on tape, both SD and HD – I’d estimate around 50 hours of machine time a year in total. Certainly not enough to ever even contemplate owning a professional deck again though.
We actually just bought a used DSR-11 DVCAM deck for a project we’re working on that involves capturing a load of archive material, but will sell it again when we’re finished. It was so cheap I wouldn’t be surprised if we made a small amount of profit on the sale of the deck.
If you feel like your decks are a waste of space I’d sell them sooner rather than later as they still fetch a reasonable amount. Renting is quite cheap, especially for SD. HD still has a slight premium because most of the bigger broadcasters here in the UK now only accept HDCAM.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
Interesting perspective Adam, thanks for sharing. I think I get what you’re saying about peripheral vision favouring the lower part, although maybe that’s simply because there’s usually more to catch your eye lower down – terrain, furniture etc. I’m sure there’s been a study somewhere that confirms this point one way or the other.
Your perspective also sits well alongside the ‘it just looks better’ point of view. Indeed it does look better, and perhaps this is because, as you say, we’ve probably evolved to expect the off-centre perspective. Our brain’s own built-in rule of thirds, so to speak.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
I just had a very interesting call from Lawrence Eaton about this and wanted to share the information he gave me.
Lawrence’s opinion is that this probably all comes from the newspaper industry, and the fact that newspapers always position headlines above the crease line to make sure people can see them when the paper is folded up on the stand.
It sounds like a plausible explanation as to why we perceive the slightly off-centre positioning as better – years of conditioning in how titles should look means that anything else just looks wrong, even though it’s totally relative.I suppose a similar analogy that applies to our industry is the film vs digital debate, where many of us just think 24p film feels ‘better’ simply because it’s what we’re used to.
Anyway, what do people think? Any other opinions as to why we position titles in the way we do?
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
[Ned Miller] “Is it possible for me to “host” it on my Vimeo site yet visitors to my site won’t actually see it?”
No. I suggest you create a new Vimeo (or YouTube) account in your client’s name and host it from there – get their permission for this, obviously. That’s the only way you can do it properly (for free).
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page -
[Greg Ball] “The goal is to edit each clip with different chromakey backgrounds”
I’d suggest not using FCP if you’re chroma keying – Premiere CS6 will be your best bet. Avid second best. FCP-X I have no idea but hear the keyer is pretty good.
Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page