[Al Bergstein]

can you do some tests of similar situations at various shutter speeds? It would have been helpful to see if you could reproduce this same thing at 30fps and higher. I try to shoot at 30 fps or higher when I anticipate more camera movement.
What kind of mount were you on?
Was the mount moving totally fluidly?

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

wow….long thread. Just wanted to add…regarding monitors…

I use both Vegas 9.0e, 10 on an HP AND a Mac Pro running FCP current version. I run both to THE SAME MONITOR…I switch between the two platforms, sometimes start rendering on one and change to the other.

The MAC platform with their built in support of high res graphics cards is DEFINITELY better quality on the SAME monitor. So it’s NOT the MONITOR. It’s the application.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who runs both AVID and FCP on the same monitor, like I do. I bet they are the SAME quality, since both support graphics cards properly.

Now that Vegas 10 supports graphics cards, I notice a BETTER resolution on my monitor, but still NOT to the degree that FCP does. However, I can finally playback AVCHD real time, which I think was a marketing decision on Sony’s part since it amazingly got fixed as they released their AVCHD cameras. Pathetic.

So I continue to use Vegas for simple fast run and gun jobs, and when I need real quality, or have to ‘play well with others’, I transcode to MOV (which costs time and money folks!), and do it on the Mac. yes, I could transcode to Neoscene’s tools, and sometimes do, but I still don’t get great color correction, or proper quality of display. I think that the ultimate output is the same quality, BUT it’s the problems I encounter editing (jerky preview/playback, poor white balance, etc.) that forces my hand.

I LOOK FORWARD to not having to buy over priced Apple hardware and software, but hey, it’s just a tool. It’s not a religion…

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

Oh good, a chance to vent on my favorite subject…
Like many here, Gabrielle, I use both Vegas and FCP. I have one monitor, and have run both on two separate machines into that monitor. I’ve edited hundreds of hours on both Vegas 9 and the current FCP. There is much to like about Vegas, but to be clear, the arguments about ‘industry standard’ are true. It’s like the arguments about Windows years ago, against the Mac, ‘everyone uses it’. All the videographers in my neck of the wood use FCP, and think I’m a little odd for liking something other than the dominant paridgm. So when I work with them I religiously transcode to ProRes, though I don’t ever need to do waste that time in Vegas, unless I am doing a shoot with multiple camera formats and want to ease huge project rendering, by using Cineform, a much better way to transcode, IMHO.

In video production, you are much better off going through the pain of learning FCP. Believe me, I’ve never been as mad at a software package as FCP, given it’s stupid user interface, inability to do a cross fade as easily as Vegas does, and the abysmal media management. But yes, it’s “industry standard”. Takes me right back to dBase programming. Vegas does many of the same tasks *vastly* faster and better. But, *everyone* is using FCP, except numerous production houses that don’t..somehow they are making money…(G). Some flaws with Vegas: it has a hard time real time playing AVCHD clips, from what I’ve seen. Their lack of use of independent graphics card processing offloading is really criminal, and their supposed fixes for that have never worked for me. Oddly, or not, they have just issued fixes for their AVCHD playback, they claim in 10, as Sony launches support for the AVCHD standard, which they wrote with Panasonic years ago.

So I prefer FCP for it’s flawless playback of my HD, and it’s white balance and color correction over Vegas, though believe me, I’m no expert in grading. But I see distinct color improvement when correcting *the same footage* with FCP. Why? I have no idea. No one on the Vegas boards can clarify.

For many simple jobs, interviews, etc. I just do Vegas, and then go back to FCP. But I have had the luxury of buying both. If I had to buy only one, it would be FCP. And get FCP Power Skills to learn what the stupid documentation doesn’t tell you.

I’m looking forward to being able to try out Adobe at some point. But their track record doesn’t make me think they can do better than Apple. At least I’ll have my choice of lower cost hardware. If they offer a decent competitive upgrade,I might just dump Apple hardware. It seems the new SE folks in SF are doing a lot with Adobe these days. And yes, Avid is out there. But I’m not that kind of pro.

So, yes, if you want to play well with others, learn FCP, drink lots of wine at the end of the day and take walks to vent the anger of dealing with a substandard user interface, and put up with it so you get jobs when they come your way.

I think we are a good 10 years off from getting the interface we deserve, the power we need, and a product that runs on cheap industry standard hardware. Neither of these products are it yet…well back to work..

(G)

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

I have both the T2i and the HMC 150. I find that the Canon is great to just carry around with me, when I don’t do ‘pro’ video work. I can shoot either stills or video in high res, and when I do shoot video, it’s usually not needing great audio. A very solid ‘gun and run’ camera for the odd surprise event. But I do have an off camera shotgun I mount on a bracket. All in all, it’s great for what it does. Currently I’ve been trying to figure out a color balance setting so both cameras will match in post. Haven’t found it yet. Wonder if it’s even possible.

But I would never choose it as a primary, for all the reasons mentioned. And yes, I have loved the 150. I do wonder about the new HMC 80 though. Seems to be a solid lower end choice.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

It’s all about your market and your skills, period. What works in Dallas doesn’t work in Seattle. Do the homework locally.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

I tend to agree with Noah, however it will be of some value due to it’s extensive manual customizations, and the ability to shoot decent quality HD.

Remember, the lens is the thing of value, not the body. That’s why Noah says that interchangeable lens are the wave of the future. Since we have reached a point where low cost DSLR cameras are here, shooters are focusing on spending their money on the glass and people like me are willing to buy bodies with the notion that they are somewhat disposible. I paid more for my 70-200 zoom than my body. That’s not unusual.

Certainly with waves of DSLR and the new Panasonic AG100 cameras, the future will be more like those than the 150, but the 150 will be fine for industrial work for some years. Heck there are a lot of people still shooting on quite old DV cameras, but they don’t expect to resell them for much.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

what tripod do you recommend, something that will turn nice but not super expensive.
You need to weigh budget and environment. I spent over $500 because it’s very windy where I live. Cheap tripods are not stable in higher winds. But you may not need that.

And what should I get with my HMC150

uv protection filter, anything else?

Yes, and multiple 16 or 32 GB cards. A good carrying case.

And is there a DVD or good book that comes with the camera to learn the setting, or is it just trial and error.

Barry Green’s book is the best starting place. See DVXUser.com for listings of it.

Your computer editing suite is the other big cost. And you may need a lighting kit. That can cost between $500 and $1000 easy. You can easily spend $10k or more getting setup properly. You’ll find what you need as you get there. I can’t tell you how you will be shooting.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

No. I still haven’t found a software package that can actually recover video .mov files… would love to find one.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

Thanks for the kind words. I thinkt that the HMC150 is a great camera, but if you are on a budget, you might consider the newer HMC80 which might save you some money. If I were buying today, I’d seriously consider it.

I edited the video on Apple’s Final Cut Pro, latest edition on a Mac Pro with dual procs and tons of hard drives. The biggest issue you will face is having enough hard drive space for HD and creating a useable workflow (you will need to read up on workflow on editing software if you don’t know about it).

I also use Sony’s Video Vegas, and if you use Windows this could be an excellent choice also. I actually prefer it to FCP. But again, you need a properly sized PC with the right software and hardware. A Windows XP 64 bit or Windows 7 64 bit with 6 to 8 GBs RAM is about a starting place. You may be frustrated trying to do less.

But the HMC80 does shoot SD so you might be able to start with SD on a lower powered machine, and switch to HD when the time comes. That’s another beauty of the 80, IMHO.

Good mics are a must. Get the right mics for the way you shoot. I used Auditronic mics both lavs and shotgun.

I also use a MixPre field mixer later in the production. The times you hear hiss on this at all are before I got that mixer. And always use fresh batteries on a shoot with a mixer.

Lights, I bought a kit used on Ebay from Adorama. They work great. Hot lights, using umbrellas. Total kit was $600 with stands. Keep a look out on ebay.

Best of luck. I used these forums extensively to help me get up to speed, so stay around and ask questions. And try DVXUser another good forum.

Alf

[Al Bergstein]

Of course you are right. As usual the inexact nature of using typing into these posts altered what I was trying to say.

I had extrapolated what Scott was looking for as he seemed to me to be pointing towards choosing a DLSR or a AVCHD video cam (since he was discussing replacing HDV cameras, and needed ‘low light’ capability I made some assumptions).

Obviously, as I pointed out, if he buys the newer Panny that has a larger sensor the AVCHD situation is pretty much moot, and actually works in Panny’s favor. Also, as you mention, many of these AVCHD based cameras have little problems with low light. But ‘low light’ can mean a lot of different things to different people. I have shot ‘low light’ and then I shot ‘low light’. On my Youtube page I have a comparison of my 150 and my T2i shooting a campfire at dusk. They are pretty comparable, but the shadows fall out quicker on the 150, even with Gain boosted.

Then again, your requirements may vary. I’m not needing to blow it up to a theatrical screen size. Large HDTV monitors is all I need.

Alf