Would the real outpoint please stand up

[Paul Dickin]

Hi
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/882390?univpostid=882273&pview=t

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/533251?univpostid=532792&pview=t&archive=T

[Walter Biscardi]

[Alexander] “Surely this is on the very last frame, and yet some editors go back one frame
to find the last frame.
Can you please tell me which is correct.”

You have to go backwards one frame. One of the strange quirks of FCP, it adds a frame to the out point.

You can see this very easily by setting your In / Out point, take note of the exact frame of your outpoint, then make the edit. Note that you have an extra frame of video at the tail.

No excuse for something like this, but it’s there.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Shane Ross]

[walter biscardi] “You can see this very easily by setting your In / Out point, take note of the exact frame of your outpoint, then make the edit. Note that you have an extra frame of video at the tail.”

I don’t see this. I mark an out…note the timecode of the last frame at 8:21:01:05. I drop that into my sequence, turn on TC overlays and not that the last frame is still 8:21:01:05. Nothing added.

[walter biscardi] “You have to go backwards one frame. One of the strange quirks of FCP, it adds a frame to the out point.”

I don’t get what you guys are talking about. When you mark an OUT, the out point INCLUDES the frame you are looking at. This has always been the case on every NLE I have worked with (FCP, Avid, Premiere). I know that tape-to-tape editors don’t include the frame you are looking at when you mark an OUT, and that doesn’t make sense to me. When I look at footage, and say to myself, “this is the last frame I want,” I want that frame included when I mark my out. Why would I look at a frame and say “this is the last frame I want,” and have it NOT included when I mark an out?

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Rafael Amador]

I think Shane is right. The mistake come because normally we start our TC in 1:00:00:00. If we want to export a one second clip we must set our OUT in 1:00:00:29 so we are exportin 30 frames. If we set it in 1:00:01:00 we will get 31.
Cheers,
rafael

[Walter Biscardi]

[Shane Ross] “I don’t see this. I mark an out…note the timecode of the last frame at 8:21:01:05. I drop that into my sequence, turn on TC overlays and not that the last frame is still 8:21:01:05. Nothing added.”

It’s the outpoint in the Sequence that gets a frame added, not the viewer. Try this.

Place two clips in the timeline, and put a 5 second hole between them. Set your In Point / Out Point to fill that hole. Now set an In Point on a clip in the Viewer. Make your Edit. Note that one frame has been added to your Out Point in the timeline.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Tony Manolikakis]

Guys

It is because the OUT point on the timeline should be looking backwards and not forwards in the timeline. You can see the difference when you mark clip (x) versus jumping to the first frame of a clip marking and IN point and jumping to the last frame and marking an OUT. Mark clip does it right IMO. I have different behaviours for this in different NLE’s.

Tony

Tony Manolikakis
Rev13 Films

[Bob Flood]

wow

not even nine am central time, and already one of my favorite peeves is getting discussed yah!

ok here is the way it should be:

i want to see the inpoint on my source, i want to see the last frame of my source inclusive

i want to see the first frame i am going to overwrite/ripple in my timeline.

i want to see the next frame of my timeline afdter my overwrite, BUT i want to end my edit before that frame, not on it.

i once made a suggestion to toggle the actual frame selected in the timeline outpoint in a preference, like avid does, but everyone jumped all over me like i was suggesting we get rid of the viewer and canvas, and i was getting comments like “oh you tape editors are used to that style of outpoint” and
“how hard is it to back up one frame”

ok, then why does mark clip include it, since the only reason you would mark a clip would be to delete it or overwrite it without taking out the first frame of the next clip. that makes no sense

anyway, thats my story and im stickin to it!

[Bob Flood]

wow

not even nine am central time, and already one of my favorite peeves is getting discussed yah!

ok here is the way it should be:

i want to see the inpoint on my source, i want to see the last frame of my source inclusive

i want to see the first frame i am going to overwrite/ripple in my timeline.

i want to see the next frame of my timeline afdter my overwrite, BUT i want to end my edit before that frame, not on it.

i once made a suggestion to toggle the actual frame selected in the timeline outpoint in a preference, like avid does, but everyone jumped all over me like i was suggesting we get rid of the viewer and canvas, and i was getting comments like “oh you tape editors are used to that style of outpoint” and
“how hard is it to back up one frame”

ok, then why does mark clip include it, since the only reason you would mark a clip would be to delete it or overwrite it without taking out the first frame of the next clip. that makes no sense

anyway, thats my story and im stickin to it!

[Matt Callac]

No frame is getting added. If you have a five second hole between two clips and you mark the in and then hit +500 to move 5 secs you are now parked on the first frame of the next clip. If you zoom small enough to see frames on the timeline there is a dark grey frame indicator box showing the fram you are parked on. It shows that though you are on frame x, frame x does not end until frame y . so when you mark an out at frame x you are marking it at the end of frame x (ie the begining of frame y), which happens to be one fram longer than the duration you want. it’s not adding an extra frame, it’s including the frame the playhead is parked on.
-mattyc

[Jeremy Garchow]

Oh boy…this old argument again?

[TonyManolikakis] “It is because the OUT point on the timeline should be looking backwards and not forwards in the timeline. You can see the difference when you mark clip (x) versus jumping to the first frame of a clip marking and IN point and jumping to the last frame and marking an OUT. Mark clip does it right IMO. I have different behaviours for this in different NLE’s. “

This post pretty much sums it up. I prefer the way mark clip does it myself. I never use it the way FCP wants me to. If I am at the end of a clip or timeline and hit out, I don’t want that frame of black to be included in my next edit. The out point should look backwards and include the last frame of the previous clip. I am constantly arrowing back to check length of timelines and clips. I really never want how FCP does it.

Jeremy