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Why FCPX?
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[Darren Roark] “A film I helped out on during the “pre library” days of FCPX called “Starry Eyes” had a theatrical run before Focus, so it was technically the first feature cut in FCP X that received an official theatrical release.
Focus was the first major release, it had huge movie stars in it and was an all in all slick endeavor. “
I’m in the same boat. The bane of indies.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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[Charlie Austin] “[Shane Ross] “No, that takes no time additional time. Export SAME AS SOURCE in Avid and you can use the Direct out option and it comes out fine. No extra time there.
”Sure, if the tracks are all set up correctly, and everything is split correctly, and the sequence is set up correctly etc. In X none of that matters, only that Roles are set up correctly.
EDIT: to be clear, I’m not talking about track 1 to Ch 1, 2 to 2, 3 to 3 etc. I’m talking about Split tracks. Something like Stereo Comp to 1&2, Stereo M&E to 3&4, Mono DIA to 5, MONO FX to 6, Stereo MX to 7&8 etc etc.”
Could you do a short demo/tutorial? I think others might like to see it as well.
Having said that I think I kind of see what you are saying. I think you are saying you can have the dialogue be sent to any track/channel you want into Pro Tools or even Logic. In other words you can send the dialogue to track/channel 1 in Pro Tools and you can send the sound track to channel/track 6. If you later want to send the both the dialogue and the sound track to Logic on track/channel 4 you can do it super easy. Maybe FCPX cannot combine the two audio sources but is that kind of what you are saying? That does sound interesting. I think Premiere Pro and Avid might be able to mimic what you are doing if a feature request was made.
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[andy patterson] “Could you do a short demo/tutorial? I think others might like to see it as well. “
He did back in February. It’s definitely worth a watch.
https://fcpxpert.net/2017/02/25/fcp-x-versioning-using-roles-the-video/
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Andrew Kimery] ” Michael Gissing is usually the one championing this point, but he hasn’t made it into this thread yet so I figured someone should go ahead and mention it. ;)”
Thanks Andrew. I’ve been reading through this thread and thought to post just that. However until Fairlight is fully ported in and I have a chance to experiment with the collaboration features I don’t want to seem to be an evangelist before the software is ready. There’s been more than enough premature proclamation on this forum over the years. I talk of Resolve’s potential and this thread is about actual usage in the field so I saw no reason to chime in.
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[Charlie Austin] “Very cool trick isn’t it? “
Yes. It would be nice if Apple would let you set the proxy size/format. That would remove the extra step to “hack” the workflow.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
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I think any publicity – even the “…but the big boys used this on xxxx studio feature” is good publicity.
While us full time working editors might not find any assurance in the fact so and so uses the same software as me, alot of people do and as we’ve seen word of mouth can go along way, and unfortunately can be a bad thing too as we’ve seen some people still havent given X a chance simply because of the bad rap it got on launch.
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[Michael Hancock] “[andy patterson] “Could you do a short demo/tutorial? I think others might like to see it as well. ”
He did back in February. It’s definitely worth a watch.
https://fcpxpert.net/2017/02/25/fcp-x-versioning-using-roles-the-video/“
Thanks for posting.
I was expecting something a little different. I have seen videos like that one before. Having said that you have to assign the roles and also setup the roles so there is time spent doing that upfront. Even then on export you have to mouse click after mouse click after mouse click to get the correct export of audio elements. You have to hope you don’t forget about turning on and off sub roles as well. With tracks I have a much better visual work flow.
If I have four dialogue tracks, four effects track, one sound track and an ambient music track and the producer wants just an export of the four dialogue tracks I can have it done in one second by simple soloing the four tracks using my $59.99 Korg nanoKontrol 2 control surface. I don’t have to mouse click after mouse click after mouse click to mute and solo tracks. There is also no time spent upfront assigning roles. I can also EQ the entire audio track and clean it up in seconds. You can do it clip by clip as well.
I am not saying saving the templates in FCPX could not be useful but there is time spent assigning the roles and setting up the templates for each version. For some exports Premiere Pro or DR with a control surface might be a better option. For others FCPX might be a better option. Everyone’s editing style and delivery requirements will be different.
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[andy patterson] “If I have four dialogue tracks, four effects track, one sound track and an ambient music track and the producer wants just an export of the four dialogue tracks I can have it done in one second by simple soloing the four tracks using my $59.99 Korg nanoKontrol 2 control surface. I don’t have to mouse click after mouse click after mouse click to mute and solo tracks. There is also no time spent upfront assigning roles. I can also EQ the entire audio track and clean it up in seconds. You can do it clip by clip as well. “
It’s just as fast in FCPX, but different. Assigning roles, especially for something as broad as “music”, “dialogue”, and “effects” takes a couple seconds for an entire project. Select all of your music and assign the audio role as Music. You never think about it again as you’re editing, and its takes a few seconds. Same with Dialogue, Effects, etc… If Apple would allow you to assign a role to an event, or a keyword, you could automate 99% of the process. I’ve requested that multiple times.
The only time roles is an issue is if you don’t assign it before you begin editing. After you’ve dropped a clip into your timeline there is no way to assign a role at the event level and ripple it to your sequence. I’ve requested that quite a few times too!
And roles are useful for more than just exporting splits. Like Charlie has talked about – it’s when you get a ton of specific requests for mixing dialogue/effects, music/effects, mono with stereo, etc… – roles make it easy to do all that from one sequence, and quickly. And you can save your role exports so you don’t have to mouse click like crazy. I have one saved that exports just Color, Graphics, 2Pop/Slate, and FINAL MIX. I set it up once, and that’s used for every master export I do.
Play around with it and you’ll see how versatile and powerful it is. I’d love to see a “roles” type export from Avid and Premiere, but with their track based system. I really miss tracks for my video – audio, not so much.
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Michael Hancock
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[Michael Hancock] “It’s just as fast in FCPX, but different. Assigning roles, especially for something as broad as “music”, “dialogue”, and “effects” takes a couple seconds for an entire project. Select all of your music and assign the audio role as Music.”
The music, effects and dialogue may need to be broken down into sub roles.
[Michael Hancock] “The only time roles is an issue is if you don’t assign it before you begin editing. After you’ve dropped a clip into your timeline there is no way to assign a role at the event level and ripple it to your sequence.
That is why I stated you have to put some forethought into it.
[Michael Hancock] “And roles are useful for more than just exporting splits. Like Charlie has talked about – it’s when you get a ton of specific requests for mixing dialogue/effects, music/effects, mono with stereo, etc… – roles make it easy to do all that from one sequence, and quickly. And you can save your role exports so you don’t have to mouse click like crazy.”
I stated saving the templates in FCPX can be useful.
[Michael Hancock] ” I have one saved that exports just Color, Graphics, 2Pop/Slate, and FINAL MIX. I set it up once, and that’s used for every master export I do.”
As I stated there are some exports that could be done real quick in Premiere Pro making a template a non issues. On the other hand FCPX will have and advantage for certain exports. It depends on what needs to be done.
[Michael Hancock] ”
Play around with it and you’ll see how versatile and powerful it is. I’d love to see a “roles” type export from Avid and Premiere, but with their track based system.”Can roles make use of control surfaces? I am sure with color coding something similar to roles could be implemented into Premiere Pro and Avid. I know the roles functionality of FCPX have gotten a lot better but as I stated there is forethought that has to go into it. I am not saying roles don’t have merit. I am saying it may be a non issue for some people. Just like Adobe Story and Adobe Anywhere may be a non issue for some people. For others they are a must have feature. To be honest a roles feature in Premiere Pro would not be at the top of my list but everyone’s list is different.
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[andy patterson] “Having said that you have to assign the roles and also setup the roles so there is time spent doing that upfront.”
That is already done, as the Roles are set before the edit starts. There is some setup involved with different GFX and or VO tags, or if you start from stems, but it takes no more time than setting up a seqeunce in any other NLE.
[andy patterson] “If I have four dialogue tracks, four effects track, one sound track and an ambient music track and the producer wants just an export of the four dialogue tracks I can have it done in one second by simple soloing the four tracks using my $59.99 Korg nanoKontrol 2 control surface.”
I can do the same thing using Roles. The video I made was in a project using stems, but it’s the same workflow with dozens of “tracks”. 18-24+ stereo “tracks” are the norm, and using Roles to manage this is dead simple.
[andy patterson] “Even then on export you have to mouse click after mouse click after mouse click to get the correct export of audio elements. You have to hope you don’t forget about turning on and off sub roles as well.”
No, you do not. You do it once for each version and save a preset. Then, for all subsequent versions of different spots, it’s 3 clicks for each export, you need pay no attention to anything but the second click where you select the preset, that’s the beauty of it. ☺ You always need to QC the exports, but that’s true in any system.
[andy patterson] “I don’t have to mouse click after mouse click after mouse click to mute and solo tracks”
Again, you do not need to do any of that. You *do* need to do that in a track/mixer NLE for digital file output. It’s not just soloing, and this workflow is not for one cut. It’s for situations where you have 5 or 6 different spots, with 5 or 6 different versions for each. Individual versions will have different track configurations, and may require both Stereo and Mono comps of the same material in the same file. In advertising, this is the norm.
[andy patterson] “There is also no time spent upfront assigning roles.”
You have to put your clips into the tracks and edit it right? That’s all you do in X. Setting up Roles takes very little time and, again, it’s all usually done well before you get to this point anyway. But even if you need to do it at the same time, it’s as fast or faster than arranging tracks
[andy patterson] “I can also EQ the entire audio track and clean it up in seconds. You can do it clip by clip as well. “
Me too. ☺
This discussion is way off topic, but as I said, I’ve been doing this for a very long time, starting with Otari ProDisc and 24 track tape, slaved to video layed back to DigiBeta or D2. Then Avid Audiovision, DAT tapes, ADAT, Media Composer, FCP 7, Premiere, and FCP X. For the kind of versioning that needs to be done for movie marketing, FCP X currently cannot be beat. MC has some output presets now, but they’re not remotely as flexible or easy to use as FCP X and Roles.
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~\”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.\”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~\”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented\”~
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