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What would it take?
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[David Cherniack] “I’ll take your word for it that FCP performs effortlessly over 24 tracks of overlapping audio because of clip connections…assuming you’re insering the gap between connected groups.”
I think this is one of those things that’s obvious when you see it but hard to verbalize – as I said, I’m clearly hopeless at getting the point across 🙁
I’d have said that FCPX would be great at opening gaps however many overlapping clips you asked it to handle – the more overlapping clips the more it’s going to score over other methods.
The clips stay where they are meant to stay because of the clip connections – but the clip connections are not something you’d have to think about activating because they would have arisen by default as a result of the editing process.
[David Cherniack] “Otherwise how will it know where to spilt the connected group except down the middle?”
What we are talking about here is a process that specifically doesn’t involve splitting anything – it’s about keeping the relationships that you have defined without you having to worry about gathering them all up and/or healing broken clips.
Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can as I feel I’m repeating myself and not making anything clearer!
[David Cherniack] “I’d also point out that I can connect the clips in more ancient NLEs like PPro with the group function so deselecting the clips that are not to move is not matter of multiple actions, only one.”
The point here surely is that you’d have had to go through and group them which is an action – or more likely several – in itself, and then you’d probably want to undo the group which is another action or set of actions. So it doesn’t quite compare for simplicity.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I know. I’m the idiot around here.
Just because I don’t edit features doesn’t mean I don’t know what overlapping audio/video events and layers are. That’s why I asked you what “complex” editing means to you. It sounds just like editing to me, not necessarily “complex”.
By its very nature fcpx overlaps. Care to explain what you mean if I am missing something?”
One thing I’m sure of, Jeremy, is that you are not an idiot.
Before we get boggled down in trying to define complexity I’ll accept Simon’s experience of FCPx’s handling multiple overlaps, especially with audio, with aplomb. I’ll only add that complexty is both logistical and visual. The one to one map of the traditional timeline allows instant, relative reference, that simplifies visual complexity and makes it easier to manage logistically. This is what essentially what you’re suggesting with zones. I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all. I’ve only suggested that de-facto it recreates the traditional timeline ( if done properly ). Could they easily implement it? Who knows? The only thing I do know about NLE development is that almost any change to architecture is a BIG DEAL and can have invisible consequences throughout the system.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “The clips stay where they are meant to stay because of the clip connections – but the clip connections are not something you’d have to think about activating because they would have arisen by default as a result of the editing process.”
So when you add an audio effect that you want in relationship with a video point you don’t have to add a connection? If so this software is smarter than me.
BTW You’re doing fine with your explanations.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “What we are talking about here is a process that specifically doesn’t involve splitting anything – it’s about keeping the relationships that you have defined without you having to worry about gathering them all up and/or healing broken clips.
Maybe someone else can explain this better than I can as I feel I’m repeating myself and not making anything clearer!”
I’ll give it a go.
With FCPX, you explicitly define the relationships between clips when you edit them into the sequence, or re-position them within the sequence. Thereafter, FCPX will maintain those relationships during editorial operations. You may have to manually resolve some non-destructive overlaps, but you’ll never have to resolve clips broken by collision.
With FCP7, you place clips absolutely in time, creating implicit relationships that the software has no mechanism to track. If you want to to maintain that relationship during an editorial operation, you’ll have to read the timeline yourself, remember or infer the relationships between clips by their placement alone, and make a careful selection to avoid breaking those relationships — and you have to do this each and every time you perform an edit that may cause a collision.
How’d I do?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “With FCPX, you explicitly define the relationships between clips when you edit them into the sequence, or re-position them within the sequence. Thereafter, FCPX will maintain those relationships during editorial operations. You may have to manually resolve some non-destructive overlaps, but you’ll never have to resolve clips broken by collision.
With FCP7, you place clips absolutely in time, creating implicit relationships that the software has no mechanism to track. If you want to to maintain that relationship during an editorial operation, you’ll have to read the timeline yourself, remember or infer the relationships between clips by their placement alone, and make a careful selection to avoid breaking those relationships — and you have to do this each and every time you perform an edit that may cause a collision.
How’d I do?”
That’s clear by me and I’ve always understood it that way…but Simon has said that X creates the connections as you edit…seems there’s a contradition as you say (and I’ve always understood) the relationships are defined by the editor.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[David Cherniack] “So when you add an audio effect that you want in relationship with a video point you don’t have to add a connection? If so this software is smarter than me.”
Yes, that’s exactly what happens – and that connection will stay there unless you choose to break it. Which means that the sound effect will move with the clip – or even, as in my typical scenario, those “15 sound effects and 4 tracks of dialogue” will move with the clip, without my having to make a conscious decision about them during the moving process.
Hence when opening up a gap in the timeline, all the clips forward of the insert point (on the Primary Storyline) will shuffle down, keeping their connections, whereas anything connected before the insert point will stay where they were – even if both sets of such clips overlap the insert point, which I find is the typical scenario.
In fact, I will typically have many, many clips that overlap and probably not a single one that actual cuts where I wan the picture cut to happen. I’m sure you must be very familiar with this situation.
I should clarify that “adding a connection” is a matter of editing using the Q key (or Edit>Connect to Primary Storyline; or dragging a clip to a connected position if you prefer that way of working). It’s not an extra process that you have to take account of.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
Nothing profound, I was just wondering how the program decided which of the 2 clips gets to go on top. You are stating that the editor determines as he’s moving the event?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Walter Soyka] “How’d I do?”
You see, I knew you could do express much better than I could!
The only thing I think needs clarifying is this:
[Walter Soyka] “With FCPX, you explicitly define the relationships between clips when you edit them into the sequence”
You might appear to be implying (to someone who didn’t have first hand experience of this) that there is some additional process involved in “defining the relationships” but of course it’s just a question of editing using the new “Connect to Primary Storyline” (Q) function as against the more familiar editing modes of Insert and Overwrite.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
Sorry Chris, I def took it the wrong way. In fact i was kind of surprised because these forums are usually pretty mellow. Sorry again.
Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC -
[Herb Sevush] ” I was just wondering how the program decided which of the 2 clips gets to go on top. You are stating that the editor determines as he’s moving the event?”
It’s as basic as where you choose to drag it in vertical space – drag it above another clip and it will take viewing precedence drag it below and it will be obscured by the clip above. It’s exactly the same as FCP7 …
… the only difference is that you don’t have to “make room” on a spare track for the clip you are moving, and of course you are creating non-destructive overlaps. Does that make sense?
(Probably not!)
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com
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