-
What would it take?
-
[David Cherniack] “But would the added flexibility be offset by the constant re-arranging of the zones forcing the editor to constantly adjust to shifting patterns? I don’t know but it seems to me the real issue here is not spatial organization, it’s whether editing in ripple mode can ever be efficient with complex timelines. “
I guess it wouldn’t be any different than constantly having to rearrange tracks, except it would be easier and more dynamic.
[David Cherniack] “This argument has seen the light of day here before but it keeps getting subsumed in ideas how to improve the magnetic timeline. If there’s a way to turn off ripple and maintain trackless re-organization I haven’t seen it yet. I think Apple may have painted themselves into a corner by going this way. “
I guess I disagree.
-
[David Cherniack] “it seems to me the real issue here is … whether editing in ripple mode can ever be efficient with complex timelines.”
I know there are lots of issues with the FCPX timeline generally (not least the “visual clutter” aspect, for which Jeremy’s ideas are an interesting approach to a possible solution) but I’m not sure I can agree with the notion that the rippling timeline specificallyt is an insurmountable hurdle.
For start it is just as possible to edit in Overwrite Mode as it ever was so why exactly is rippling such an issue?
It’s not as if it’s a new concept that we haven’t had to address before – rippling behaviour is sometimes appropriate and sometimes not, overwrite behaviour is sometimes appropriate and sometimes not.
Just as there are strategies for enabling rippling in a non-rippling timeline, so there are strategies for disabling rippling in FCPX.
Apologies if I’m missing a key complexity, but I really don’t think this is one of the major issues.
Personally I think that, despite all the dumbing-down comments, the rippling timeline actually successfully addresses some very high level and complex editing situations (as for instance with the insert gap capability) that are significantly less well catered for by traditional means.
Lack of native OMF/EDL export on the other hand – don’t get me started! And please don’t anyone mention Foolcut/X27/Resolve or any other Heath Robinson multiple third party fix or I’ll blow a gasket!!!!
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I guess it wouldn’t be any different than constantly having to rearrange tracks, except it would be easier and more dynamic.”
Who has to constantly rearrange tracks? Once I start my actual editing I set my tracks and add clips to them as approriate. By assigning or dropping on zones you’re doing the exact same thing. So how is it easier unless you’re making incorrect assumptions about my workflow? ‘Dynamic’ I can see. Marginally more flexible also. I’m not sure that it’s better because of the rippling issue that I’ll address in my response to Simon.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[John Davidson] ”
Every time I get a ‘out of memory’ error on FCP7, I get a little more ticked with Apple about FCPX”If you are getting “Out of memory” errors, you should have visited the COWs FCP Forum.
Most “Out of memory” error I’ve met were operator errors.
The last errors due to System/FCP where on the 8/12 cores MP when managing XDCAM stuff. That was some three years ago and they were silently fixed by Apple.
rafael -
[Simon Ubsdell] “For start it is just as possible to edit in Overwrite Mode as it ever was so why exactly is rippling such an issue?
Just as there are strategies for enabling rippling in a non-rippling timeline, so there are strategies for disabling rippling in FCPX.
Apologies if I’m missing a key complexity, but I really don’t think this is one of the major issues.
Personally I think that, despite all the dumbing-down comments, the rippling timeline actually successfully addresses some very high level and complex editing situations (as for instance with the insert gap capability) that are significantly less well catered for by traditional means.”
Maybe there’s something about the Magnetic timeline I don’t grasp. The way I understand it the position tool is the only ‘overwrite’ function available and it works as an override to the standard rippling mode. If that’s correct that’s not the same thing as working in overwrite. If it’s not, please do correct me.
Doing insert gap with complex timelines is always going to require some adjustments whether it’s done in ripple or overwrite. I do it in overwrite because I thinks it’s more controllable and predictable. But for me in PPro with the aid of a mouse macro it’s as simple as selecting everything from the cursor back with one mouse click, deselecting whatever overlaps that I don’t want to move and dragging a gap or entering the exact gap length.
David
AllinOneFilms.com -
[Chris Harlan] “Well, there is that. Touche. You right coasters are wicked smart folk.”
where you born a douche or did it take practice?
Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC -
[David Cherniack] “Who has to constantly rearrange tracks? Once I start my actual editing I set my tracks and add clips to them as approriate”
You know how many tracks you’re going to have before you edit?
What if all of a sudden an effect is comprised of 6 stereo pairs, you don’t have to rearrange your timeline for that?
“Zones” would simply adjust. I’m not assuming anything about your workflow. It’s cool. Let’s discuss it.
-
[David Cherniack] “The way I understand it the position tool is the only ‘overwrite’ function available and it works as an override to the standard rippling mode. If that’s correct that’s not the same thing as working in overwrite. If it’s not, please do correct me.”
So much has been made of the Position tool in these discussion that it seems as though it’s been forgotten that the D key (or Edit>Overwrite) is your standard Overwrite mode, no different from FCP or any other NLE. In fact, it’s exactly the same and completely unchanged.
Note also that you can Lift from Primary Storyline (Opt/Cmd/Up arrow) as well as go the other way, which is again a non-rippling behaviour.
So, I think it is fair to say that the Position tool is absolutely not the only overwrite behaviour.
On the subject of gaps, I did discuss this at length in another thread which hopefully explains what I mean when I say that the insert gap function enables a very high order editing capability.
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/17739#18364
In fact, this:
[David Cherniack] “Doing insert gap with complex timelines is always going to require some adjustments”
… is now actually not the case with FCPX. I’d say that in 99% of cases there will be no need for repairs or adjustments of any kind (beyond possibly trimming the gap), as everything stays connected exactly where you’d hope it would. (I know it doesn’t seem possible or likely but try it and you’ll see that it’s true.) Accordingly, what used to be a multi-step process in almost every case (some times very many steps indeed), is now a single-step process.
Please don’t think this is a blanket apology for the more heinous excesses of FCPX – I just do believe that in this case they’ve got something very complex really rather impressively right. Though I know it’s going to be an uphill battle arguing this position, because looking at everything they’ve messed up on it’s hard to believe they got anything right at all 😉
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “So, I think it is fair to say that the Position tool is absolutely not the only overwrite behaviour.”
I forgot to add that everything that takes place outside the primary storyline is a non-rippling behaviour only – all connected clips operate in “overwrite mode” rather than rippling (although of course they slide out of each other’s way rather than destructively eat into each other).
And an additional point to make is that nudging a clip up and down the primary storyline (using either the arrow keys or the number pad) is also an overwrite behaviour.
So all in all quite a lot of overwrite behaviour to be getting on with 😉
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “all connected clips operate in “overwrite mode” rather than rippling (although of course they slide out of each other’s way rather than destructively eat into each other).”
What are the rules of precedence then – which clip is viewed when you move two clips into the same temporal space?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up