Video Stutter 1080p ProRes – Out of Options and Desperate

[Jerry Hofmann]

Has all of the footage been transcoded to ProRes before you edited? The DSLR footage especially needs to have had this done. I’d transcode it all to ProRes first. Mixing formats “works” sort of, but sure is nicer working in FCP 7 when it’s all singing the same tune and no transcoding nor frame size/rate conversion has to be done in the sequence.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: https://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

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[Tony Silanskas]

Yes but good question. All footage was transcoded to ProRes before any editing was started and the files that needed it were conformed to 23.98 so that there was only one frame rate to deal with.

tony

[Brendan Maghran]

I don’t have concrete solution to this, but why don’t you just try converting a couple of GBs of footage to 1080p and see if you still get the judder? I haven’t ever had this issue despite working with different frame rates together on an everyday basis. Is the 720 footage from the Canon or Varicam?

I would also try exporting some of the “stutter” footage and see if you still have the same problem with the exported clip.

[Tony Silanskas]

The 720p footage is both Varicam and Canon 7D that was shot at 59.94 and then conformed to 23.98 with cinema tools. We have done a bunch of exports and they all play fine outside of Final Cut in the finder or Quicktime but will start stuttering in Final Cut once the first stutter happens with the 720p footage. Also, all the 720p footage plays outside Final Cut just fine so the culprit seems to be Final Cut.

We have done some tests with converting the 720p to 1080p and it seems to work. Just a minimum of three days to convert everything and we’re trying to avoid that as it will push us past our deadlines but might need to go that route. We are doing a fresh install of the OS now and installing a new Nvidia 4800 graphics card since that is the last one we haven’t tried.

tony

[Paul Jay]

What storage do you use?
I don’t see anything about storage in your post.
Do you use a dedicated RAID System ?
Do a AJA speedtest on the drive you are editing from.
It seems your storage it too slow to playback 1080p ProRes

[Tony Silanskas]

We are using a Promise RAID with Final Share but the problem occurs using the internal drives, firewire drives, or the raid.

:: Update and possible solution ::

I got an email from another colleague that said he had issues with a Nvidia driver at some point. It got me thinking about what graphic cards have been installed in our two MacPros and I found a common variable that I missed. Right now we have a GT 120 in one and the 8800 in another. But they both had used the same Nvidia 8800 card at some point (we upgraded one and switched it to another with a clean install) so those drivers were on the both towers. Tonight, we reformatted the 2008 MacPro and installed a brand new Nvidia 4800 that we recently purchased but have been waiting to install because of these issues. As of this moment we have not been able to replicate the problem so it could be that 8800 driver. Tomorrow’s deadlines will be the true test.

tony

[Bill Lee]

…it begins to stutter during playback.
1) How many streams of ProRes are you trying to play back at once?
2) If you turn on the dropped frame warning in the User Preferences, does it give a warning of dropped frames?
3) Is it just a visual thing while you are working in FCP, or is it a stutter in rendered/exported files?
4) Does the stutter occur in the same place every time?
5) Do you play back video clips that match the sequence settings? What happens if you create a (non-matching) sequence, drop one of the clips into this sequence, then say yes to the dialog box that asks you if you want to make the sequence match this clip. When you play this sequence, does it stutter? (From your description, you are trying to play back 720p material in a 1080p timeline which is stuttering.)
6) How long are the clips that you are working with? How many timeline tabs do you have open at once?
7) Does it stutter if you are playing back a clip in the Viewer, instead of the Canvas/Timeline?
8) Is your Canvas window showing a scrollable part of the video you are trying to watch? FCP used to have (and probably still does have) problems in playing back part of a video – you need to set the Viewer and Canvas to ‘Fit to Window’ (Shift-z) to avoid this playback problem.
9) Does the problem still occur if you work in a 720p sequence with a mix of 1080p and 720p clips?

Bill Lee

[Tony Silanskas]

I believe problem was with the Nvidia 8800 graphics card and driver with the ProRes 1080p material. We are doing more tests this week to confirm it but after the clean install and the new Quadro FX 4800 installed, all seems well.

1) Just one stream, no effects
2) Yes
3) Visual thing
4) No
5) Playing natively works fine. Only stuttering with 720p clips in a 1080p timeline.
6) The clips average about 5mins a piece but I did not some very long sequences (1-5 hours long). I have heard that long sequences might be a problem with our Final Share Ethernet Raid so I deleted all the long sequences. Was still having the problem after that but could be I still have a few long sequences in there that I missed. Checking that this morning.
7) Plays in viewer fine.
8) Canvas and Viewer are Fit To Window and not overlapping any windows
9) No, which has lead me to believe it’s a 1080p issue

tony

[Gary Adcock]

[Tony Silanskas] “9) No, which has lead me to believe it’s a 1080p issue”

first off what are you monitoring your signal on?

I believe that the issue is because the format is actually PSF- most people cannot watch true P footage and the default for all 1080 Broadcast is Segmented frame and you are looking at footage that is juddering or looks “staccato” on playback.

maybe try that PSF version

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

https://blogs.creativecow.net/24640

[Tony Silanskas]

The Kona is set to output 1080psf 23.98 but the stuttering happens in the Final Cut Canvas on a system without the KONA installed as we have been trying to get rid of all possible variables. I noticed today that having the Overlays on in the Canvas or Image+Wireframe selected makes it stutter whether it is 1080p footage or 720p. I know this issue has been around for eons so maybe that is part of the problem.

tony