timecode is OUT

[Shane Ross]

You got some very bad dubs. if they didn’t have the original time code from the beta tapes, then they are useless. If your DVCAM timecode starts at 00;00;00;00…then the beta TC was not transferred to it…that is bad.

How was this dubbed?

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Matt Devino]

If this was done at a post house you should definitly go get your Beta’s re-dubed for free. Sounds like they blew it big time.

[Dan Cooper]

The recording studio’s response / recommendation was the following:

The DVCAM recorder does not have external timecode in so you need to
view VITS not longitudinal timecode to see the original ‘off tape’ timecode.
If not the NLE software you are using should be able to ripple timecode to
allow for the offset.

Does this make sense?

[Carsten Orlt]

you can either enter new timecode (modify-timecode) for a given clip
or
enter a auxiliary TC through the same method, leaving your DV tape TC intact.

If you change the original TC be aware that after doing so you can’t recapture from the DV tapes anymore unless you change it back again.

Biggest problem you have is to find a definite frame where you are a 100% sure you know the exact Beta TC, AND that there are NO TC breaks on the Beta tape!!! Because when not copying the TC from the Beta to the DV tape, any TC break will not be shown on the DV tape because the DV VCR created a new TC! If there is one you might get the first section correctly, but after a break (or several breaks) you can be out by anything from 1 to xx frames. Unfortunately every camera start-stop can produce a break of 1 frame, even if the TC in the camera was set to regen or the camera operater used the the recue function. (hope this sounds not to confusing)

I’m not sure if you can use the auxiliary TC for recapture once you go back to your Beta tapes? I only know you can use the auxiliary TC for edl’s.

My honest advice: Either get a new transfer at a different post place which have a DV VCR with TC in (to copy the exact TC) or hire a Beta VCR to capture directly from the Beta tapes. You will save A LOT OF TIME later.

[Shane Ross]

[dan cooper] “The DVCAM recorder does not have external timecode in so you need to view VITS not longitudinal timecode to see the original ‘off tape’ timecode.”

That makes no sense. If the DVCAM recorder could not accept external TC, then it wouldn’t take external timecode anywhere. VITC timecode is just a type of code. Vertical Interval Time Code. The other is LTC…Longetudal (sp) Time Code. If no timecode was being transferred from the beta tape to the DVCAM tape, neither one of these codes would “magically” obtain it from the betaSP tapes.

[dan cooper] “If not the NLE software you are using should be able to ripple timecode to
allow for the offset.”

Yes, but that is a PAIN in the patoot. Getting dubs without proper timecode transfered means the dubs are pretty much useless. You were given very poor advice.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Jeremy Garchow]

First, off what dv deck and capture device do you have and second of all, they threw you under the bus.

They should have told you that you needed to be able to capture VITC and not LTC. I would refuse payment, return the dv tapes and go to someone who can help you. Or, buy your self an AJA io LA, rent a beta deck for a day and capture yourself. Do not let them tell you that it’s your fault for not being able to read/capture VITC.

Jeremy

[Ben Holmes]

All sage advice – unfortunately too late. As I read it, you’ve already off-lined this edit using the DV tapes, right? So, redubbing won’t work, unless you go back to the start and replace all your media, realign it all etc.

Not all DV decks have a TC input, but if you’re having dubs made for an offline, there’s no point to them at all if they don’t. As someone else pointed out, rushes will almost always have timecode breaks, whenever the camera operator checks a take for example. If your rushes consist of a single take of an interview/concert etc. then you might have better luck. Even one small break will render the entire method they suggest irrelevent.

I don’t know how you can tell FCP to differentiate betweem VITC and LTC, nor how it can perform this ripple effect that the dubbing house mentions. They don’t even know for sure (and it’s pretty unlikely) that the VITC was transferred between the dubs – it’s encoded on certain lines (usually 19,21 or 21,23) on the top of the frame, from memory DV is different, and the Beta VITC may well have been blanked.

Perhaps you should go back to them and suggest that unless they can give you the exact method for what they are suggesting, you will have to take action against them for the extra work they have created. The fact that you were not aware of this issue before hardly absolves them of guilt for not pointing it out earlier if they knew what they were making the copies for.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd

EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.

OB Server 1 HD – Mobile FCP editing done right.

[David Bogie]

Try not to take this personally.
This is an unfortunate and totally unnecessary snag in your production. We see these posts often, “Someone screwed up, how do I fix it?”
You want to avoid all this stuff going in.
If you knew you were originating on Beta and editing on DV and depending on accurate timecode, you should have tested the workflow before committing to the procedures.

As stated later, forget the DV dubs for now, they’re worthless. Get a Beta deck and capture from the originals. You will waste more time and money trying to fix this than you will spend doing it correctly the first time.

However, your Macintosh may not be up to editing the Beta using an AJA or other input card. If that’s the case, you’ve got to get your producer into the picture immediately and figure out how you’re going to save your production.

bogiesan

This is my standard sigfile so do not take it personally: “For crying out loud, read the freakin’ manual.”

[Dan Cooper]

Thanks for all of the good advice, i will see what can be resolved.

For my own personal gratification and understanding… is there a major difference in quality between digitising directly from beta tape, or 1st dubbing from beta to dvcam and then digitising.

The footage is bluescreen and shot on SX Digital Betacam, so would there be less artifacting by not transferring to dvcam.

Thanks,
Dan

[Ben Holmes]

Quality will be better dubbing direct from Beta SX – it’s a bigger colourspace (can’t remember the exact spec on SX, know it’s more compressed than Digibeta at around 5:1), but it general you should ALWAYS digitise from the original format.

Be suprised if it doesn’t improve your keys – DV formats are not good for clean keying, with bad colour depth.

Ben

Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd

EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.

OB Server 1 HD – Mobile FCP editing done right.