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The P2 stradegy is just plain DUMB.
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I don’t think P2 is “dumb”… I just think it’s premature. We need big cards (64 GBs or more) and lower prices (in the hundreds and not the thousands). If that were the case, P2 would take off… if it remains anywhere close to the way it is now… I don’t think this new camera is going to sell as great as the Panny faithful hope it will.
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If you want a cheap camera that can shoot non-mpeg2 compressed HD and can do varible speed- then you gotta go to P2 or hard drives.
If you want to wait until P2 price drops or until the design and workflow is finally perfected, that’s cool, but someone’s gotta at least make the first move. And that’s what Panasonic is doing.
Also, what do you care? If it doesn’t work for you either (1) don’t buy it or (2) make your own camera. But, the camera will work nicely for some people. Take a deep breath and get a grip.
jeremiah black
dual 2 gig G5
2.5 gigs of RAM
Decklink Extreme capture card -
It is intresting to see the varied responses. I felt that it was dumb to have an 8 gig card that might record a few moments of HD. But hopefully by the time the HVX is released we will have 16 or 32 gig cards that are affordable. (I hear the manufacturers ramping up) I remember when a 32 meg stick of RAM for my Amiga was $1000!!. When a 1 gig HD cost $500!! So if anything the Pana strategy is very smart. Look how many shooters are now saying wait a minute, should I really run out and buy the Sony HDV???
I have a potential project coming up where the Sony HDV will be perfect.
I could buy the camera and a new edit system just for this one project.
I can always sell the Sony later and get the Pana or have them both.
The cost of gear now is not an issue that it used to be when you hadto run your $35,000 BetaSP gear into the ground. My first BVP camera and deck cost $48,000!! I sold it 5 years later for $3000. I did make a ton of money with it and it served a purpose. I cannot wait to start shooting with either the Sony or the Pana.!!
Mike Schrengohst -
Absolutely.
Panny is making bold move by skipping one generation of recoring: disk based. -
I hear ya. But It’s that prematurity that’s the dumb part.
I’m not saying the idea isn’t noble. A grand effort, for sure.
But It’s dumb because, they’re mixing apples and oranges; A low cost camera that does HD, and a low cost camera that does P2. They’re not the same, and if the launch fails to satisfy the $ expectations … (witness the earlier launch of P2 equipment) which technology is the loose link. In other words, what if the obvious shortcoming of the P2 storage space drags down sales…. and they don’t realize that they would move a gazillion units if they had just taken an intermediate step like adding dvcpro50, or overcranking or native 16:9 chips to the dvx100A… or all of the above.
I mean from a biz perspective, it just seems kind of clumsy. “Dumb” – to pack so little of so much into something so new.I do hope they licensed the P2 ‘raid’ technology to 3rd parties, get those prices down, and specs up… I totally agree, that I’d accept the lack of camera masters and the ease and manageability they bring, as well as all the risks associated with trying to kill so many birds with one technological stone – and jump all over this camera if/when these P2 Chips were bigger and cheaper.
that’s all.
thanks for the debate ya’ll.matt,so
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you have to look outside the “box” ..
but you’ve already stated don’t give you the “future” so go buy the sony and many will go with you BUT many will go with the P2 knowing that as it comes into play solutions will come along …sort of like when HDV was introduced there was huge NLE problems with it.. looking around at NAB 2005 seems every NLE has HDV solutions. BUT again if you are going by what is available TODAY you are correct and lets face it the camera will not be ready till 4th quarter so it doesn’t exist ( the chips/electronic’s etc don’t exist..they only have a non working mock up) ) so why are we having this conversation? the JVC and sony do exist and solutions are here today …i did see sony Vegas 6 take 1080i and render/convert out to 24p & 30p and it looked very, very good ( IMO forget shooting in their 24/30 modes ) ..the JVC shoots 24p ..
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You can also look at the camera from the bottom up. It’s a DVX-100a (it has mini dv transport) List $3995.00. PLUS wide format chip set (Canon XL2) (what’s that worth?) BUT it’s future proof! DVCPRO 25; 50; 100 @ 24; 30; 60 + variiiiiable. Bid the HD jobs at varicam prices (help pay for more cards). I live on an island and have to pay to heli-jet an HD cam from the mainland plus lose a day’s rental in transport (counting return trip). Rentals are not always available when you want, especially if you’re waiting for weather or what ever and need to act fast. You can own this thing and have it at your finger tips for cheap. For all this convenience I’ll make the P2 cards work, even the small ones. If you get your 100,000th. “write” on a card they are 1/600th the cost of tape! That’s right, by the time you’ve worn out a $2000.00 8GB P2 card you will have spent $1.00 for every $600.00 you would have spent on HD tape. You can put the money saved into archival storage of original data and final edits. It will be interesting to see what capture and long term archiving options are available in 6 months. Unless some golden oppertunity arises justifing an HDV purchase I’m just going to sit back and wait the 6 months.
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Panasonic predict that most people will never buy more than 2 cards with the camera, and never need more than those 2 cards either. The cards are only for temporary storage, and solutions will be rapidly coming about to fill in the gaps.
I think everyone knows that optical disc and hard disc are temporary solutions for acquisition and that as such, they are compromised for that use. The only compromise I can see with P2 is the cost/size thing, which we know will get better. Hard disc will always have reliability issues / power usage etc. and optical discs, like hard drives are still mechanical and, indeed, large and bulky.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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As if the other options are any better!! A DV tape stores what, something like 12GB, Blu-Ray is at 23GB, and P2 is at 8GB per card. They’re all in the same order of magnitude, but only P2 is going to get rapidly better….
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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If 3rd parties want to licence P2, they can.
But P2, from what I hear, is made to very exacting standards for total reliability. There’s little point moving away from tape if the replacement is not going to be totally reliable – it sounds to me that P2 is going to be totally reliable.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP
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