The new HPX-300

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Erich Roland] “Yes, the “one size fit all” idea maybe old school, but I still think that fewer is better for both the manufacturer and the consumer specially in tough times. “

Ah, but see, this is a decidedly “new school” line of thinking. There was never a camera that has done it all, still isn’t.

[Erich Roland] “Specially in Panasonic’s line right now there are WAY too many camera products. (just my opinion) “

On paper, yeah, maybe. But if you look closely at their offerings, there’s something in there for you. Also with P2 really beginning to take off, (at least I think it is, this forum sure is pretty busy) I think Panasonic is still experimenting with what cameras work for them and people are just now realizing the power of a file based workflow and also what metadata can do for them. Also, they have traditionally been a 720p format company. 720p, in my mind, is a great format that offers very very nice image quality in a multitude of frame rates that is true p and not psf and offers a fantastic flexibility in mastering. On the scopiest of scopes, 720p looks totally great. When 1080p cameras, true 1080p60, becomes a standard and physically feasible, we will have this discussion again but that’s not going to be for a very long time and SD will d-e-a-d dead. A 1080p60 Varicam would certainly be the top of the line, but right now I don’t think it’s possible at a price or technology point that Panasonic is comfortable with or else it would be on the market. That’s just me guessing and speculating. Not to mention, the processing power required to edit/post Uncompressed 1080p60 material will be very very demanding, but who cares about post?

Also, another point I wanted to being about transferring p2 cards in the field attached to a Honda generator. Panasonic cameras allow you to attach bus powered drives to the camera and you can do the download right form the camera to a little drive. The camera will format and copy the info on to the drive for you.

And another thing, here’s the thread from earlier last year that I found where I did some math for Mr. Cummings on tape vs P2 for a big project he was working on:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/120/859344

Jeremy

[Tim Wilson]

In classic Jeremy fashion, he’s staying strictly on topic rather than blowing his own horn. He wrote a GREAT article for Creative Cow Magazine on the process that he and his company went through before they bought the HPX-300, including why they spent extra money to buy the AVC-Intra board.

Note that this is not a review. He didn’t borrow the camera for one shoot and try to look like an expert. The article focuses on, again, why they spend their own big bucks, and their experiences after six months of shooting around the world. Great stuff, and I think it will shed a lot of light on this discussion.

Now, since in classic Tim Wilson fashion I WILL blow my own horn, and say that the New Visions issue of the Cow Magazine also includes an interview with Panavision’s John Galt (“The Truth about 2K, 4K, and the Future of Pixels,”), a practical look at building digital cinema, and much more. We’ll be expanding the article for the web soon, but in the meantime, check out the print version by downloading your free PDF copy.

And thanks again Jeremy for a great article.

Best,
Tim Wilson
Creative Cow Magazine

[Gary Adcock]

[Erich Roland] “but I still think that fewer is better for both the manufacturer and the consumer specially in tough times.”

But they may not be the reality, It costs more to add all of these features and maintain some kind of quality over the product. R&D alone accounts for a large percentage of the cost of a camera, so the more engineering that goes into a product the more it costs or the longer it takes to get to market.

I feel that we are quickly coming to the point where imager sizes and / or specific cameras are treated like film stocks. I have seen what many here consider the highest level of Prosumer cameras be used on a set as if they were disposable. Every person and production have differing needs.

I work with most of the cameras discussed here, I am a Phantom Tech, I’ve done over 100 Red projects, even worked with Arri D21, Vipers, f23’s and f35’s. While it may not be in your future, many many people rent the camera they need for specific projects, changing cameras the way you change coats with the weather. That is the rule for higher end productions, small indy guys tend to force their camera to do everything that comes along without regard to whether the gear is up to the task or not.

Funny in the SD world cameras only did one thing. Now with Tapeless HD everyone wants to be able to handle all the variables without actually ever learning the why or how things should be done.

Honestly in all the years I have been doing this I have rarely (like 4 times in 20 years) ever shot more than one format per day onset and 2 of those were 16mm film projects mixed w/ the Phantom- now all of those are just shot on the phantom for simplicity.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php

[Erich Roland]

Gary, You have an interesting seat at this game for sure.

Film was film for many years, and SD video had limited hardware as well. For the first 8-10 years of HD the choices were also few, now all of a sudden in the last 3-4 years the market for new HD products has exploded and become very complex for the consumer.

I’m trying to find the middle ground (or the common denominator products) but it may just not be possible. This declining world economic situation will be tough in every corner of the our economy and expect our industry to see the tree’s being shaken in many ways. I want to brace myself and our company for possibly tough times ahead.

best, Erich

Erich Roland
http://www.dc-camera.com
HD camera rentals, Washington DC
(and Cameraman)

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Tim Wilson] ” before they bought the HPX-300″

Acutally it was the HPX-2000, but I know what you meant. 😉

Jeremy

[Tim Wilson]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Acutally it was the HPX-2000, but I know what you meant. ;)”

Dude, I EDIT the articles. You don’t expect me to READ them do you? 🙂

So it turns out that the article is even more relevant than I thought wrt the “one size does NOT fit all” part of the thread…

[Helmut Kobler]

I’m in the market for a new camera and am leaning towards the HPX2700. The reasons are: 1) the Panasonic filmic look, 2) the variable frame rates, 3) P2 and AVC Intra and 4) price combined with Panasonic’s 24 month leasing terms (0%).

Personally, I can’t imagine ever needing/wanting to shoot SD, but I definitely wring my hands over the issue of a 1.1 vs 2.2 MP imager. I would LOVE to be able to have an HPX3000 imager combined with 60 fps, but no one seems to offer that in the form of a field-friendly ENG camera (Red does it but you get plenty of other hassles in exchange–ie, the weight, battery life, the difficulty in using it as a one man band, the more complicated post workflow, etc.).

Since no one else offers my dream camera, it tells me that there might be good technical/cost reasons for that state of being. At some point we’ll get there I’m sure, but it seems like we’re not there yet.

By the way, Erich, I caught some of your work last night on History Channel’s Air Force One documentary. Nice job! I really liked the show, and what a great experience that must have been to shoot the plane. Just curious: what camera did you use for that production? I think there might have been some film used on the plane itself, but most looked like Varicam, maybe HDX900. I wasn’t entirely sure, though.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Helmut Kobler] “I’m in the market for a new camera and am leaning towards the HPX2700. “

And that’s the way we would have leaned if it were released in the time we were looking to buy. At the time, we had to make a decision as we had too many shoot days coming up to not buy a camera.

As far as variable frame rate, you can still shoot 720p30 or 720p60 on the 2000 and conform to 24p (we shoot and edit mostly @ 24p). It doesn’t offer all the frame rates (1-60), but it is possible and the 2000 is 15-20k cheaper. Believe me, though, I understand why you are looking at the Varicam.

Jeremy

[Erich Roland]

Hi Helmut, Yes, the AF-One show was shot almost entirely with the Varicam, a few times mini camera’s were employed when needed. Film is very uncommon in Doc’s these days, although we shot a bunch of 16mm on the last 2 Obama campaign films but that’s different then most doc work these days.

I love the Varicam and would be perfectly happy to just keep shooting with this camera until something better comes along. I will keep it as long as my clients allow me to bring it along. I personally don’t want to shoot P2, it may be better in post but it complicates life on location where productions are often complicated enough. Because P2 cards cost too much, and if your shooting a lot you will possibly need an addition body to just deal with media adding expense not required previously with tape production.

I guess the 2700 in the sweet spot of most logic at the moment if P2 is the want. For me as an owner operator I wouldn’t want to just own a P2 camera and have to talk my many tape based clients into a new trick but I guess that’s part of the landscape these days. I suppose an owner/operator needs to own multiple cameras is the answer and the solution Panasonic wants us to have!

Thanks for engaging in the conversation. Its good to hear different voices and what their particular circumstances and issues are.

Best, Erich

Erich Roland
http://www.dc-camera.com
HD camera rentals, Washington DC
(and Cameraman)

[John Cummings]

[Jeremy Garchow] “And another thing, here’s the thread from earlier last year that I found where I did some math for Mr. Cummings on tape vs P2 for a big project he was working on:

” target=”_blank”>https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/120/859344″

And I thought Tim said you always stay on topic.

Not sure what the point is Jeremy, but please don’t get me going on THAT issue again! Were you one of those kids that stuck the stick through the fence just to tease the poor dog?

Anyway, I will tell you that we’re nearly at the halfway point in that project right now, and I’m perfectly happy to be shooting tape on it…which also allows me to have dinner and cocktails with the rest of the crew at the end of the day.

J Cummings
Cameralogic/Chicago
cameralogic.tv
HDX-900/HDW-730S/DXC-D50