The Honda Ad Timeline

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “of course if you have 4 different “roles” and you highlight one of them you are still left with a timeline that is 75% unintelligible. And you have to constantly keep hitting that index feature whenever you need a refresher on what is what, audio wise. With tracks you hit nothing and have 100% intelligibility.”

Have to respectfully disagree here. FCP X audio clips are much easier to read than any NLE I’ve used just on their own. You can also change the clip names to Roles and it’s brainless to tell what’s what. I’ll give you that a 2 hour timeline, zoomed all the way out, would be easier to “read” with tracks than in X. But really, does that matter? I’m only looking at small chunks when cutting and it’s easy to se what’s what, no Role highlighting is necessary. I don’t really even use it. I do use the index to solo Roles and to to make sure I’ve properly assigned everything before exporting audio. It’s not a big deal.

[Herb Sevush] “As has been stated repeatedly, color coded roles would address this issue, but since people have been asking for it to no avail for almost 3 years I don’t see why anyone expects to see it anytime soon.”

I hope Apple will get to the timeline soon. Seems like they’re focussing on one or two panels at a time. The timeline would seem to be all thats left. We’ll see I guess…

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Herb Sevush]

[Andrew Kimery] “I’m going to add to this and say that many of the FCP Legend users I personally knew did not know any other NLE so they reacted to the EOL by Apple as a direct attack on their ability to make a living (many of them were also die hard Apple fans which made the ‘betrayal’ all that more upsetting)”

That wasn’t my case at all. EMC to *edit to FCP (with a quick trial of PPro version 1) – And this after years of both film and linear video editing. My resentment was based on EOL’g a workflow that suited me for a workflow that didn’t without nearly enough transition time built in. Anyone who had based his business around Legacy and who found the X paradigm not in-line with their needs was going to be resentful. How pervasive this became was the fault of incredibly bad management and marketing decisions, at least in my opinion.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Charlie Austin]

[Andrew Kimery] “The FCP-only friends I had were staring ‘square one’ in the face for the first time as professionals and had no idea how to react. I think them taking it personally could make it less likely for them to pick up X. Or it could just be that Avid (and to a lesser extent PPro) are much more viable alternatives in Los Angeles than X so it’s a pragmatic choice, not an emotional one.”

I think that’s true. I also think there is an element of fear, not in the “fear a new paradigm sense”, but in the square one sense you mention. FCP X is not hard to learn, but you can’t just import a project from 7 and hit the ground running. Thus the lure of Premiere for FCP 7 switchers. At least that’s what I observe here in the trenches. If you know 7, you can stumble into Pr, (lazily) use the FCP 7 KB layout, and just keep grinding away.

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Herb Sevush]

[Charlie Austin] “I’ll give you that a 2 hour timeline, zoomed all the way out, would be easier to “read” with tracks than in X. But really, does that matter?”

A half-hour timeline zoomed all the way out is easier to read with tracks than without and that matters to me because that’s what I’m working with, day to day. Because it matters to me doesn’t mean I am right, it simply means that X is not right for me. I think we have gotten to the point where we can all agree that X is a fully qualified professional editor with unique attributes, whose design suits some editors work habits to a T, and runs totally against the grain for other editors. Visual timeline organization is neither right nor wrong, it does however suit some editors more than others. My guess is that every editor in this forum could cut their next project on either X, Avid, or Ppro with sufficient training. I am also guessing that their reactions to the various NLe’s would be as polarized as the US congress.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] “My resentment was based on EOL’g a workflow that suited me for a workflow that didn’t without nearly enough transition time built in.”

I get this, but again… FCP 7 did not stop working, and in fact still works just fine in Yosemite. Maybe they could have more clearly communicated the timeline, but they didn’t kill the software. There are a legit workflow reasons to stick with one NLE over another. “Apple sux” isn’t a good reason though, especially at this point. But it is what it is i guess…

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Andrew Kimery]

[Charlie Austin] “Thus the lure of Premiere for FCP 7 switchers. At least that’s what I observe here in the trenches. If you know 7, you can stumble into Pr, (lazily) use the FCP 7 KB layout, and just keep grinding away.”

The lower barrier to entry PPro offers is certainly appealing. Especially for multi-seat facilities. I know of at least two in LA that either recently switched or are planning to switch in coming months from FCP 7 to PPro. The biggest reasons are that PPro can most easily slip into their existing workflows (and these are places that have 2-3 production facilities around the country) and because the stable of freelancers they pull from can very quickly get up and running with PPro.

That’s the chicken/egg part of the equation that’s keeping X from gaining ground quickly in large markets like LA and NY. Facilities/shows aren’t going to switch to X until there is a large enough pool of experienced editors that know X and editors aren’t going to pickup X if 99% of the jobs are in Avid, FCP 7, or PPro.

[Herb Sevush]

[Charlie Austin] ” but again… FCP 7 did not stop working, and in fact still works just fine in Yosemite. Maybe they could have more clearly communicated the timeline, but they didn’t kill the software.”

They killed all communication about the software. Who would have guessed that Legacy would still be running on Yosemite? How do you run a company that doesn’t know at what point their software can no longer work on upgraded OS. What if you need to add 10 seats for a new project – do you want to be running a company that bases it’s supply channel on Ebay? I worked with Legacy for 3 years after the EOL and I was pissed at Apple every day I turned on the computer. I’m working on Ppro now and no longer care that much at all.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Charlie Austin]

[Herb Sevush] ” Because it matters to me doesn’t mean I am right, it simply means that X is not right for me.”

Yep, I agree.

[Herb Sevush] “My guess is that every editor in this forum could cut their next project on either X, Avid, or Ppro with sufficient training. I am also guessing that their reactions to the various NLe’s would be as polarized as the US congress.”

I’m already doing that to an extent, sometimes working in 2 or 3 NLE’s at once. I guess that’s why I have a hard time understanding the “irrational” aspect of resitance to X. I can see what it falls short at, but also what it crushes other NLE’s at. And I’m sure someone like you, with different workflow needs might see the complete opposite. But I hear the “It’s iMovie Pro and it sucks” resistance (still!) to X from FP 7 users who do exactly what I do, and it really makes no sense to me.

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Andrew Kimery] ” The biggest reasons are that PPro can most easily slip into their existing workflows (and these are places that have 2-3 production facilities around the country) and because the stable of freelancers they pull from can very quickly get up and running with PPro.”

I get this. What i don’t get is the resistance from 1 man bands and smaller 5-10 editor shops, of which there are many. What you describe is the “nobody uses it, because nobody uses it” syndrome. Pr is a great app, but for promo’s/trailers/etc there are huge workflow benefits in X now that are being ignored in favor of the “Pr is just like FCP 7 but kinda better” meme.

Again, I get it. I also think it’s really dumb. As soon as someone “big” in LA starts using X (and talking about it) watch how quickly the tide turns. Now, maybe that will never happen, but it would surprise me if it didn’t at some point. Whatever… I like it. 😉

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Herb Sevush]

[Charlie Austin] “But the “It’s iMovie Pro and it sucks” resistance (still!) to X from FP 7 users who do exactly what i do and it really makes no sense to me.”

That’s the “heard” mentality, and is the result of the way the rollout was handled. It’s the same reaction as you get to the Affordable Care Act – it sucks, it doesn’t work, it will raise prices – it doesn’t matter that this is demonstrably not true – public perception is a hard thing to change (When the legend becomes fact, print the legend) – which is why it’s so important to get it right the first time.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf