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Tedious track based editing
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[Jeremy Garchow] “What about digitized music creation?”
Yes, it can be the challenges in conveying a piece like Karl Stockhausen’s Kontakte or Gesang der Jünglinge but even the kind of “rhythm leading” in African cultures that Steve Reich has written about and incorporated into some of his compositions. Harry Partch and other “non octave” composers had notation challenges. Heck even Frank Zappa struggled in trying to notate what he was doing with his guitar playing.
And with digital also there’s timbre documentation which can be integral to a piece and, in some cases, the concept of a “note” itself is a problem if the sound involves continual changing pitch. -
[Craig Seeman] “There are cultures much older than that that have produced music. “
And there are many great musicians than can’t read music notation. So what? I never said western music notation encompasses all of music. it is the best system yet devised for communicating music to others without a personal interaction. It is not as good or as deep or as worldwide as teaching another player what you want them to play, but it beats anything else for knowing what was on a composers mind if he isn’t around to tell you.
[Craig Seeman] “The assumption that modern EuroWestern music notation is a “standard” is wrong IMHO. The premise is wrong because it’s EuroCentric.”
Many things are eurocentric, that doesn’t automatically make them invalid. Tell me a better way to communicate musical intent to a bunch of musicians who have never heard a composition, met the composer or even met each other. Poetry existed long before written language, but there’s a reason why the printed page is valuable. The printing press was eurocentric as well, do we throw that out too?
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Tell me a better way to communicate musical intent to a bunch of musicians who have never heard a composition, met the composer or even met each other.”
I can imagine very complex display of data on a device like a tablet that may better convey complex information.
And this conversation sort of began with “tracks” and Apple is certainly working on an alternative and I do think they will improve on imparting information to the editor although they still have aways to go. I expect (or at least hope) that Roles will became a flexible tool for displaying the data visually in different ways as needed for a given editorial style or goal.
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[Craig Seeman] “I don’t want an NLE to force me into pop tunes and classical orchestration.”
Craig,
This is precisely why I find the ideological choice of “primary storyline” and A/B editing a questionable foundation for an NLE.
Why start with such conventions?
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “This is precisely why I find the ideological choice of “primary storyline” and A/B editing a questionable foundation for an NLE.
Why start with such conventions?”
I think Roles will allow much more freedom (eventually).
I also think Connections will progress as well into something more nodal. -
[Craig Seeman] “I think Roles will allow much more freedom (eventually).
I also think Connections will progress as well into something more nodal.”Craig,
Maybe. Personally I like to distribute my overly-optimistic hopes about pretend software evenly to all comers.
By that measure, Premiere Pro will have the best media relink capability of anyone.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “Craig,
Maybe. Personally I like to distribute my overly-optimistic hopes about pretend software evenly to all comers.
By that measure, Premiere Pro will have the best media relink capability of anyone.”
I have no problem with that. I’m not sure I see anything unusual in their approach to relink (saying from afar since I haven’t used it). Adobe Anywhere is a good example of innovation and implementation on their part. I don’t mean to limit innovation to Apple at all. It would seem that the “unique” advantages of a given NLE are going to be “more unique” but each will grab ideas and develop them differently just as Adobe has implemented its own form of skimming.
As an aside, barring any changes, Avid is going to be left behind. I suspect they’re stuck in “survival mode” and have the most to fear from a user base that doesn’t like to deviate much from conventions.
Apple seems much more willing to take extreme risks . . . and they are risks. It’s easy to see what they’re gambling on. Hence my “attrition” reasoning.
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While I wouldn’t hold my breath for Apple to ever add back in something like tracks, I do think there’s an interesting (and possible) hybrid approach. Namely one of “zones”, “stripes”, “lanes” or whatever else you want to call it.
For many of us, tracks create areas of demarkation. 1-8 for dialogue, 9-16 for SFX, 17-24 for music, etc. Roles don’t help, because this is a form of visual organization as much as anything else. It would be great to be able to cordon off zones within the timeline window into which we could designate certain types of connecting clips to fall (and yes, here, roles could help).
This way my music track doesn’t flop around into strange places when something I move causes clip-collision-avoidance by one of my VO or SFX connected clips. These could still flop around within their zones, but otherwise they don’t intersect vertically from one zone into the other unless I purposefully make that move.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Herb Sevush] “I notice your still using the alphabet in this digital world. Are letters the best we can come up with? “
Until we can implant hardware in our brains to communicate wirelessly. Yes. There is simply no vehicle for that, perhaps Project Glass is a start? You will be able to see/hear what I am without talking or writing about it. Is that better than sending a letter describing my situation via post?
[Herb Sevush] “The actual symbols change and grow over time – look at mathematical notation for instance – but these are additions and refinements – not wholesale change.”
You think FCPX is wholesale change or is it that start of refinement?
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[Oliver Peters] “Roles don’t help, because this is a form of visual organization as much as anything else”
I think Roles will become a visual organizing tool. Roles is heading in that direction but it’s very early. I think it will have linear “track like” display capability. I can’t seem Apple putting this kind of feature anywhere else. I also can’t see Roles being limited to its current use. It’s handling data and display and will improve in both those areas, I think.
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