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Tedious track based editing
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[Jeremy Garchow] “You think FCPX is wholesale change or is it that start of refinement?”
According to Apple it is revolutionary, not evolutionary. And we know that Apple is always right.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Oliver Peters] “While I wouldn’t hold my breath for Apple to ever add back in something like tracks, I do think there’s an interesting (and possible) hybrid approach. Namely one of “zones”, “stripes”, “lanes” or whatever else you want to call it.”
Heck yes. I would love something like Zones. I will have to find the original discussion on that.
I was pointed to a training piece done very early on by Larry Jordan. I don’t have it, or I’d show you.
In it, there’s a movie that shows a music track that pegs the music to time indefinitely. I think it might be similar to what iMovie calls a “Soundtrack” but I don’t know. It was sort of like another primary storyline, it had no interaction with the rest of the timeline, and it seemed to be audio only. This could be good, but it can also be bad as you now have to treat it separately.
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[Herb Sevush] “According to Apple it is revolutionary, not evolutionary. And we know that Apple is always right.”
Ah, fu*k that. That is marketing.
Many new pieces of tech that comes out are revolutionary according to the marketing. Apple’s marketing is no different and won’t be the first or last to use this highly overused term.
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[Herb Sevush] “According to Apple it is revolutionary, not evolutionary. And we know that Apple is always right.”
Of course, you have to ignore the parts that were borrowed/lifted/adopted/appropriated/quoted from ‘prior art’. “Great artists steal.” – SJ.
Avid had a magnetic timeline function early on.
Mistika had trackless timelines.
Media 100 (and others) had A/B-roll timelines.
DS had a container function (not unlike compound clips).
DPS Velocity had clip linking/grouping functions.
Avid and Premiere Pro had Find and Custom Sift functions with show/hide capabilities.
Various NLEs had combined A/V tracks separate from V-only and A-only and Title-only tracks.
Various NLEs used a single viewer window.
ArtBox (then FC Server) had the database functions.… I’m just sayin’ 😉
And then there are the various other attempts at non-standard (NLE track-style) timelines…
Montage – clips in order, IIRC
Ediflex – EDL style but based on lined script numbers
Quantel Harry/Henry/EditBox – vertical filmstrips
Immix – more of an A/B roll track sheet based on A/B roll + titles + audio
Mistika – floating, freeform order
Autodesk Flame – node-based
Editware – track-like, bus based on parallel channels of a playback serverNote – some of these are still quite successful in their niche, like Flame.
I just want to be clear, that I’m not saying FCP X’s timeline won’t survive or even thrive. Clearly you have both nodal and track-style compositors. It’s just a question of whether tracks are more conducive to how editors work and think. If that’s not true, then a new generation will make X the professional market leader. If it is true, then pros will stick to tracks and X will stay in the minority of apps used by pros. Too early to tell.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “Ah, fu*k that. That is marketing.”
Well then to answer your original question sans sarcasm – I don’t know if X is a refinement or wholesale change. Based on our discussions sometimes I think it is a wankel rotary engine – another way to do the same thing with different strengths and weaknesses, but no clear cut overall advantage.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Oliver Peters] “This way my music track doesn’t flop around into strange places when something I move causes clip-collision-avoidance by one of my VO or SFX connected clips. These could still flop around within their zones, but otherwise they don’t intersect vertically from one zone into the other unless I purposefully make that move.”
I’d go for zones.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “[David Lawrence] “If I have the ability to group objects together on the timeline so that they always move together in sync, would you agree that this group explicitly specifies a relationship between clips?”
If you are asking me, the answer is surely.”
Agreed. Curious to hear what Walter and others have to say.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “Curious to hear what Walter and others have to say.”
David,
Perhaps a new thread is in order …
I’ve often thought that we need some sort of wiki for conceptual references, as I tend to lose the thread and rely on searches and faulty memory later.
Oliver Peters has a sketch for a historical outline, for instance, and there are certain recurring themes.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “Perhaps a new thread is in order …
I’ve often thought that we need some sort of wiki for conceptual references, as I tend to lose the thread and rely on searches and faulty memory later.
Oliver Peters has a sketch for a historical outline, for instance, and there are certain recurring themes.
“Franz,
I think you’re right. This thread is getting too big for all the ideas floating around.
There are some key inter-related ideas that you, Jeremy, Oliver, and Walter have raised that I want to try to expand on. I’ll go start a new thread for this.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[David Lawrence] “If I have the ability to group objects together on the timeline so that they always move together in sync, would you agree that this group explicitly specifies a relationship between clips?”
Yes.
(My shortest post ever in this forum?)
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events
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