Sub-frame Audio editing – FCP X vs Premiere

[Bret Williams]

Ah, so at 1/100th of a frame that’s the equivalent of editing at a 3000khz level. So it’s not 4800 kHz but I think it’s close enough, and X doesn’t require some mode. Plus it seems that you can actually go beyond the 1/100th anyway. I think this ones busted.

[Shawn Miller]

[Bret Williams] ” I found that accessing the sub frame mode was a complete PIA though and I’ll take X’s method any day.”

It’s just two clicks though (right click on the time ruler and select audio units)…

Shawn

[David Roth weiss]

What a bear toggling that on and off, huh Shawn?

Gosh, my mouse finger is getting a real workout just thinking about that difficult “PIA.” I hope you get to take a break afterward.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.

[Charlie Austin]

[David Roth Weiss] “Does the information above mean that FCP X is a toy, or that users are amateurs? Of course not…

Of course not. And when did you stop beating your wife? 😉

In all seriousness, this thread redefines the term “splitting hairs”. No matter the different atomic level of accuracy, which nobody is really sure of anyway, not having to switch modes to do subframe/sample accurate editing is actually quite nice. As I switch back and forth between X and Pr regularly, I think I’m allowed to say this.

EDIT: Forget the “nobody is really sure of” line above, if you have a 48k audio clip, you can trim/move audio by 1/48000 of a second (a sample) in both X and Premiere. Exactly the same functionality.

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Oliver Peters] ” Yet, you can still grab the edge of the edited clip and trim it at what appears to be a more precise amount than 1/100th of a frame.”

The amount is a sample. I have no idea where the 1/48000 of a frame came from, It’s 1/48000 of a second if it’s a 48k sample rate, 1/44100 of a second if it’s 44.1 And X, just like Pr, can trim audio at that level of accuracy. 😉

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Mark Smith]

I love these arguments about invisible things. While I understand that editors may be passionate about their tools and their preference for certain tools that enable their work, in the end no one watching lets say “Homeland” is thinking ‘oh wow this episode that was cut on Premier is so awesome’ .

Mark Smith
DP & wannabe editor

[Charlie Austin]

[Mark Smith] “I love these arguments about invisible things”

🙂 lol No desire to argument here, I just wanted to correct the inaccurate info on which this thread was based.

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Charlie Austin]

[David Roth Weiss] “For the record, with the addition of Adobe Audition, editors using Premiere can edit down to the sample level of 1/48000th of a frame – FCP X also supports sub-frame audio editing, but at 1/100th of a frame. (***Oops, my Bad!!! As David H. Lawrence points out, I should have stated that Premiere on its own, without Audition, supports sub-frame audio editing down to 1/48000th of a frame)”

David, in the interest of accuracy, would you consider another edit, pointing out that the statement above regarding FCP is incorrect? X and Pr both allow you to edit at the sample level.

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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[David Roth weiss]

I believe the entire misunderstanding for all concerned is by virtue of the fact that the industry refers to this feature as sub-frame audio editing, the alternative is editing at the full frame level, yet the sub-frame sample rate is not based on frames at all, but on samples per second.

So, both FCP X and Premiere support audio editing down to the sample level which is 1/48000th of a second at 48khz. However, if you read Apple’s document on the subject below, you’ll see that the scale is divided into 1/80th of a frame increments, which also adds to the confusion.

“For even more precise editing, you can zoom in to audio clips at the audio sample level. Audio samples show the audio waveform at a fraction of a second (for example, 1/48,000 for audio recorded at a sample rate of 48 kHz). Sample-accurate editing resolution is available only for connected audio clips (that is, audio clips not in the primary storyline) or compound clips that contain only audio.

Tip: For reference when working with video, you can view subframes (1/80 the duration of a video frame) in the timecode display of the Dashboard. In the General pane of Final Cut Pro preferences, choose the subframe option in the Time Display pop-up menu.”

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles

David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Mark Smith] “in the end no one watching lets say “Homeland” is thinking ‘oh wow this episode that was cut on Premier is so awesome’ .”

The discussions aren’t about whether or not the audience can tell what tools are being used though. The discussions are about the objective and subjective differences in the tools and how they can help or hinder our ability to quickly and easily get the job done within the budgetary and time constraints of the project.