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Splitting multi-channel audio into discrete left and right tracks?
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Why did you apply a gain filter?
What did you mean by you can’t skim across multiple clips when the inspector is open? You said that multiple times and I haven’t the foggiest what you meant. There are no limitations to anything when the inspector is open. I pretty much never close the inspector. People say to close it for better performance, but that’s where you DO everything.
Are you outputting to tape? That is the ONLY reason I can figure you’re outputting with stuff isolated right and left. Doesn’t your station output in stereo? I can’t believe you’re working in a mono transmission TV station in 2016. Even in the days when I edited like you but on tape we sure didn’t monitor with our channels panned left and right. That provides an inaccurate mix. We monitored in mono mix. Hearing the channels independently out of different speakers is just no way to determine a mix. Sure won’t help with determining if one signal has a phase cancellation or if one eq is messing with the other. Sounds like you’re editing just mic and nat. Which means you should be able to set up all your interview shots in the browser mono, select the single channel you need (others off), panned one way. Then do the same for all your nat, and just pan that channel to the other side. Then edit away. The only adjustments you’d make in timeline would be volume as you go along. You never answered if you use more than 1 channel from any shot. You kept saying you needed both channels separated, but all your examples involve two channels of output, L&R which I assume care coming from different sources, mic & nat. Correct?
So if you’re not outputting to files? Isn’t that a time suck?
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[Phil Lowe] “(can’t skim across multiple clips with the inspector open, however)”
What does that mean? Of course you can.
BTW you can kinda turn off the skimmer only in the timeline by pressing shift T. That puts you in transform mode where the skimmer is turned off, presumably for plotting keyframes. But the you can still skim in the browser, inspector open or not (still a strange comment).
[Phil Lowe] “Edit out bad takes and dead air, then drop to secondary, leaving a gap on primary.
Pieces that start with track, drag to beginning of timeline on secondary timeline. Pieces that start with SOT/Nats, drop into primary with insert/overwrite.”I think I’d leave everything in the primary storyline that dictates time. I’d leave the reporter and the sot pieces on the primary. They are the driving force. The broll should connect to those pieces whevever possible so that when you drag or move them around in the primary, the connected broll moves with them. I wouldn’t ever use overwrite or place any broll in the primary.
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[Bret Williams] “Why did you apply a gain filter?”
Because the audio was too low at one point for +12dB gain on the clip volume. I had to take it higher than +12dB.
[Bret Williams] “What did you mean by you can’t skim across multiple clips when the inspector is open?”
At one point, I had a single column of clips and couldn’t skim from one to another without moving my mouse down a line. It always happened when the “inspector” was open, so took that as a limitation. I now see that clips on the same row can be skimmed across even with the inspector open.
[Bret Williams] “Are you outputting to tape?”
File.
[Bret Williams] “Doesn’t your station output in stereo? I can’t believe you’re working in a mono transmission TV station in 2016. “
Local broadcast content is broadcast in mono. Network content is broadcast in stereo. I don’t make the rules or set policies on how stuff is produced. I’m told to shoot and edit in dual mono and that’s what I do.
[Bret Williams] “That provides an inaccurate mix. We monitored in mono mix. Hearing the channels independently out of different speakers is just no way to determine a mix. Sure won’t help with determining if one signal has a phase cancellation or if one eq is messing with the other.”
Well, first of all, the amps I used to use at my former station had detent stops on the volume pots, which made setting the same volume on two speakers very easy. But even at the board level, the amps were calibrated to the same -20 dB reference tone. I don’t know how the edit bays at my current station are set up. Nevertheless, if a mono mix was required to assure a proper mix on L/R panned tracks, Avid let you do it with 2 clicks:
Changing the monitoring from stereo to mono in Avid doesn’t change the mix on the timeline the way, apparently, FCPX does.
As far as cutting all the sound on the primary goes, I tried that initially and couldn’t cheat the the beginning of a bite over the end of a track. And using the position tool would overwrite the track. So yeah, the way I did it is probably the way I’m going to keep doing it.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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[Bret Williams] “So if you’re not outputting to files? Isn’t that a time suck?”
We do output to files and, as far as I’m concerned, everything about X is a “time suck.”
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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[Bret Williams] “I wouldn’t ever use overwrite or place any broll in the primary.”
I would. And did. It worked. Moving on.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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[Phil Lowe] “Local broadcast content is broadcast in mono. Network content is broadcast in stereo. I don’t make the rules or set policies on how stuff is produced. I’m told to shoot and edit in dual mono and that’s what I do.
“Except you aren’t. You are editing in some sort of faux stereo, not mono or dual mono.
Let’s put it this way. On your camera, your dual mono recording isn’t panned left or right. Channel 1 is channel 1 and channel 2 is channel 2. You can monitor each channel discretely.
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[Phil Lowe] “Local broadcast content is broadcast in mono. Network content is broadcast in stereo. I don’t make the rules or set policies on how stuff is produced. I’m told to shoot and edit in dual mono and that’s what I do.
“Except you aren’t. You are editing in some sort of faux stereo, not mono or dual mono.
Let’s put it this way. On your camera, your dual mono recording isn’t panned left or right. Channel 1 is channel 1 and channel 2 is channel 2. You can monitor each channel discretely.
[Phil Lowe] “As far as cutting all the sound on the primary goes, I tried that initially and couldn’t cheat the the beginning of a bite over the end of a track.”
You mean a J or L cut? Also entirely possible in X.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “You are editing in some sort of faux stereo, not mono or dual mono.”
The clips have to be split out to dual mono for editing. The channel assignments are 1:left and 2:right, so yes: it’s stereo. When it is played back through the PC and goes out to the transmitter for broadcast, both channels are mixed to center: mono.
Better?
[Jeremy Garchow] “You mean a J or L cut? Also entirely possible in X.”
Of course it is, as illustrated here:
When I say “cheat”, I mean starting the first syllable of the incoming clip right on the last syllable of the outgoing clip creating a very tight, slightly overlapped edit.
Now if by creating this scenario you mean expanding the audio and video just to be able to slide the track in there, why is your way the preferred way of doing it?
Look, I’m trying to develop a workflow here that is easy for me to grasp coming from years of editing on Avid, and that gets the job done as quickly as possible. The way I’ve done it is the way that both makes the most sense to me and gets the job done. Repeating it, over time, will (hopefully) bring the speed I need. You may do it another way, and that’s your choice. But, as this is the first package I’ve actually completed in this “crap app”, I’m going to do it my way until I can either work out a better way to do it, or get to stop using it altogether.
Fair enough?
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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[Phil Lowe] “The clips have to be split out to dual mono for editing. The channel assignments are 1:left and 2:right, so yes: it’s stereo. When it is played back through the PC and goes out to the transmitter for broadcast, both channels are mixed to center: mono.
“It just seems to me that is bad stereo instead of true dual mono. You could deliver a true dual mono with discrete channels for archiving and reuse as well as transmission.
[Phil Lowe] “Of course it is, as illustrated here:
“That’s not a j or l cut that I was taking about. I’m taking about an actual split edit where video or audio of the outgoing clip, physically overlaps the video or audio of incoming clip. What you have there is a dissolve with another piece of media attached to it.
This is what I am referring to:
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH12635?locale=en_US
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[Jeremy Garchow] “It just seems to me that is bad stereo instead of true dual mono.”
I started in TV in 1979. It’s been done this way for years in TV, at least since the days of 3/4″ tape. Assuming you have never worked in TV news, I can understand why this workflow doesn’t make sense to you. For those of us who have been doing it this way for years, it’s not a problem.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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