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Splitting multi-channel audio into discrete left and right tracks?
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So, as an example, can I assume the situation is something like you have a bunch of clips. Some are interviews or the newsperson and they need to have CH 2(stick mic) patched to track 1(panned left) for dialog, and the other clips are broll that needs to have NAT (camera mic) CH1 patched to track 2 (panned right) to keep the nat discrete for use in other productions/stories?
Have you tried highlighting a bunch of clips in the browser (the interviews for example), then in the inspector making sure it’s mono, then turning off the track(s) you don’t need, and then panning?
Like this:
That should accomplish what you want to a group of clips with about the same effort as setting up track patches. And, if for some reason down the road you decide you have the wrong channel in use for a particular clip or clips, you always have all the other channels available Instead of having to match frame and reedit. Wouldn’t it be a hassle on Avid if you edited in 100 edits using only ch 1 and then realized you should have been using ch 2?
So it still seems like there’s very little difference in the two scenarios of X vs. track based NLEs. In the track based scenario (for example) you like to have the CH2 patched to track 1 and track 1 be automatically panned left (which is set by the sequence). So you set up the patch once and edit away, with the exception of a few clips that might need a patching change (if you notice) or maybe a match frame and overwrite the clip with the correctly patched audio channel (if you didn’t notice). Of course don’t forget to change the patch back because it might f up your next 100 edits until you notice you’re using the wrong patch settings.
In X, as suggested at the top of this post, I’d simply highlight all the shots in the browser, choose mono, and turn off the unneeded channels and then pan left or right as desired. One time. Across the board. (And those clips are all now correctly set for any editing in the future with no worries about patching or who is doing the edit.) Then, during editing, or later if I notice a channel is incorrect, I simply change the channel/pan in the inspector. No match framing/overwriting needed. And if I realize 100 clips are wrong, well it’s just as easy to change 100 as it is 1. Not 100 match frames needed. I realize that’s an exaggeration not likely to happen, but um.. interns, assistant editors, producers that think they can edit, and so on can foul up a rough cut in this sort of way. Especially if someone left the patches set wrong.
And if you wanted to use two channels from the clip and have them automatically left and right, then yes, you’d have to use stereo which would be a different selection as would having to adjust a patch to use both channels OR a tiny more work to open the compounds and pan each channel separately.
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[Phil Lowe] ”
And yes, it’s OK to admit when you don’t have the answer to my question”For the bird time, the answer to your question is Roles.
You set a role for voice, a role for music, and export your timeline with 2 channels of audio one that is voice and one for music.
This gives you discreet channels of dual mono. It is so fall down easy, the answer is literally in front of you.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “For the bird time, the answer to your question is Roles.
You set a role for voice, a role for music, and export your timeline with 2 channels of audio one that is voice and one for music.”
Does assigning roles pan the tracks during the edit or just export? If just export, it only solves half the problem, because we have to edit the way we archive. If only export, you’re still reduced to manually panning channels on the timeline. Oh, and when the inspector is open, you can’t skim across multiple clips in the browser! May as well be working in FCP7 at that point.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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Why would you need to pan when your goal is dual mono?
There is no pan in mono. It is mono. Singular, one discrete channel.
If you reimport the master, you turn off the channel you don’t want. Done.
No one is going to listen to the voice coming out of the left side only. For editors, all we need is discrete audio for later remix or repurpose. Fcpx allows you to do this in spades.
A two track master with voice “panned left” and music “panned right” is the exact same thing as having voice on one channel and music on another.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “No one is going to listen to the voice coming out of the left side only.”
The viewer hears the correct mix coming from the transmitter! But we, in news, edit with discretely panned left and right channels so that we can both monitor these channels independently and output for archive and reuse!
Again, this is something that is a default setting in Avid!
Want channel 1 lav mic left? Just put it on channel 1! No renaming tracks. No assigning roles for export! I actually got a response to my feedback from Apple. Know what Apple’s response to this issue was?
“…you can use separate roles for the camera mic and shotgun, and then export the completed project as a Multitrack QuickTime Movie.”
No one on a news deadline is going to export camera clips out to QT (or XML) and reimport them just to get discretely panned audio! It really does reflect a glaring ignorance of broadcast news workflows!
It’s clear no one here has ever edited news, so it was probably my mistake to bring this issue here.
Just for grins, I tried one more go at this.
I took all 90 clips and created a compound clip out of them. I expanded the audio, selected it, then set its channel config to dual mono. I then set the pan mode to “stereo left/right”, and panned ch.1 left and ch. 2 right. I then marked an in and out on the compound clip and dropped it into my package timeline, at which point all my prior audio editing was completely undone!
Done with this POS for now. I think I want my money back from Apple!
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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[Bret Williams] “Have you tried highlighting a bunch of clips in the browser (the interviews for example), then in the inspector making sure it’s mono, then turning off the track(s) you don’t need, and then panning? “
Yep. As explained in an earlier post:
As you can see by the attached screen cap, I have selected all 90 clips in my bin, and can change the channel configuration and panning mode, but panning them all to left or right affects both channels of audio. I want mono 1 left and mono 2 right, and want this at the browser level with all 90 clips selected. Now, is there a way to do this or not? I have tried disabling the track that I don’t want to pan (unchecking mono 2) to pan only mono 1 left, but mono 2 still ends up on the left side of the mix. Premiere’s track mixer can handle this. Why can’t FCPX?
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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We are going around in circles.
Sorry, it doesn’t seem that you can get it working but discrete audio is absolutely possible in X.
“News”, that is, two simple channels of discreet audio can be, imported, edited and exported in X.
It may require a different workflow than you are used to, it may looked different than a track based system, it may take some getting used to. Or not. It may never work for you.
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If you want to use just 1 channel from your footage, then you can pan all the channels left or right and turn off the channels you don’t need. That’s what I just described.
If you need both channels from your footage in your edit, then you can leave them dual mono and pan the components in the timeline as I demonstrated in my first post way back.
You could also leave them stereo, but if you need to adjust the channel volume separately you’ll have to dive into components.
That’s your options. They seem pretty quick and easy but I don’t have much use for them in my cat and skateboarding vids on YouTube. Please subscribe!
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I’ve returned to editing this package I’ve started several times now, looking for that magical speed increase the guys at Apple swear is there…
“The editing team behind the Warner Bros. feature Focus found they are editing three times faster than in any other NLE”
Not only do I not find it any faster than editing in Avid, I’m actually slower in it, panning and disabling channels in the inspector as I lay each shot into the timeline (which is precisely why I was looking for an upfront fix a la Avid’s alternating L/R mono tracks!). The skimmer is just a royal PITA. I wouldn’t mind it so much for skimming a clip in the browser (can’t skim across multiple clips with the inspector open, however), but timeline skimming is distracting when there are other navigational tools that are more precise (and I use that term loosely). Even with snapping on, I find I’m constantly having to zoom in on edit points to make sure things are lining up, and then zooming back out (SHIFT-Z) to see the big picture again!
Way too much fussing with minutiae to be fast in this app!
That said, I think I have a workflow that may work:
- Use Voiceover tool to record reporter track straight to timeline.
- Edit out bad takes and dead air, then drop to secondary, leaving a gap on primary.
- Pieces that start with track, drag to beginning of timeline on secondary timeline. Pieces that start with SOT/Nats, drop into primary with insert/overwrite.
- Repeat process of dropping bites on primary and dragging tracks on secondary until all the sound is down.
- Finish by b-rolling with overwrites on primary or connects on secondary as needed.
It’s always best to address audio issues after dropping a shot onto the timeline. Failing to fix problems at that moment and moving on means you may not remember to fix it later, especially as the pressure builds to get the piece sent to the playback server!
Not fast at all at this point, but it is doable. Absolutely no need for roles, keywords, or favorite/rejecting, and all the primary sound is panned left, while all the nats is panned right: just down and dirty cuts editing with some dissolves. That’s a basic news package.
I’d only add that in the time it took me to get the piece this far in FCPX, I would’ve had it done, sent to playback, and moving on to next project in Avid. I’ll still take tracks over trackless any day of the week.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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Finished.
Slower than Avid. Significantly slower.
And the same package edited in Media Composer. Much faster. When I see audio on tracks 1 & 3, I know at a glance it’s primary (channel 1/left) audio. When I see it on track 2, I know at a glance, it’s nats. No messing with roles. No trying to figure out where all my audio is by going clip-by-clip through the inspector. Simple and elegant. Of course, the problem with it is kids using iMovie to edit their selfies will never get it, but there’s a reason Avid has been used to edit more feature-length films and news packages than any other NLE around: I could hand this story off to another editor who could see – at a glance – exactly what’s going on with the audio being given absolutely no other information about the piece. Or I can come back to it in 6 months and know, at a glance, exactly what I did with the audio. I seriously doubt anyone using FCPX can do that without first consulting all their metadata.
Whatever. Different strokes, I guess. I’m just glad I only have to use iMovie Pro for news.
Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, FCP X.
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