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Something else to debate!
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[andy patterson]”Won’t the smart keyboard interface you described get filthy smudge marks?”
Have a look at the Fairlight keyboard controller.
https://www.fairlight.com.au/products/post-production/xynergi/The keyboard is basically an ASCII keyboard with transparent keys. Underneath is a screen. So the keyboard can be mapped by having the screen change under the keyboard. The Fairlight keyboard doesn’t seem to get dirty. Certainly nothing like a touch screen. After using my keyboard for many years it has required minimal cleaning, even less than my other keyboards.
I have seen little development in keyboards, mice, and touch screens over the past 20 years. My original DAW dSP had a touch screen option over twenty years ago. The Fairlight approach has been one of the few smart dedicated controller developments over that time and it has been available for the past decade. I have often stated how perplexed I have been at the lack of decent ergonomic controllers in the NLE world when speed and ergonomics are key to comfortable fast working. There is still much that can be learnt from twenty years of DAW hardware and software.
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If only a keyboard like the Optimus Maximus was in mass production (and didn’t cost a fortune).
https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/
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[Michael Gissing] “[andy patterson]”Won’t the smart keyboard interface you described get filthy smudge marks?”
Have a look at the Fairlight keyboard controller.
https://www.fairlight.com.au/products/post-production/xynergi/“[Michael Gissing] “The keyboard is basically an ASCII keyboard with transparent keys. Underneath is a screen. So the keyboard can be mapped by having the screen change under the keyboard. The Fairlight keyboard doesn’t seem to get dirty. Certainly nothing like a touch screen. After using my keyboard for many years it has required minimal cleaning, even less than my other keyboards.”
I know what the Fairlight surface control (keyboard) looks like. My point is that it will get smudges. It will probably be harder to clean a control surface device than a touch screen. When I go to the library the keyboards are filthy. In the end an audio mixing board will get dirty as well if people don’t wash their hands regularly. As I have stated if you run multiple monitors you could really customize the GUI to work very efficient with the touch screens. Perhaps even more efficient than using a control surface.
[Michael Gissing] “I have seen little development in keyboards, mice, and touch screens over the past 20 years. My original DAW dSP had a touch screen option over twenty years ago. The Fairlight approach has been one of the few smart dedicated controller developments over that time and it has been available for the past decade. I have often stated how perplexed I have been at the lack of decent ergonomic controllers in the NLE world when speed and ergonomics are key to comfortable fast working. There is still much that can be learnt from twenty years of DAW hardware and software.”
The touch screen interface from 20 years age was probably not as advanced as the touch screen capability in the DAWs of today. When you talk about speed and ergonomic that is kind of my point as well. You would have to test a touch screen system with multiple monitors vs a control surface based system. One might work better for FCPX and the other might work better for Premiere Pro CC. I used FCPX and Premiere Pro CC because at this stage FCPX still does not have a GUI with customization that is on par with Premiere Pro CC. FCPX does have much more customization than it once did.
In the end I think it will depend on the user and the software being used. As I have stated we will probably see more touch screens on the market and the price will probably drop as well. Price vs functionality will probably play a role for most users. Wouldn’t you agree?
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[Andrew Kimery] “If only a keyboard like the Optimus Maximus was in mass production (and didn’t cost a fortune).
https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/“
Touch screen vs control surface or even keyboard and mouse might be influenced by the GUI. As of now FCPX does not have the customization that Premiere Pro offers. In the end I think it will depend on the user and the software being used. As I have stated we will probably see more touch screens on the market and the price will probably drop as well. Price vs functionality will probably play a role for most users. Having said that I will admit the Surface Studio and Surface Dial did seem impressive. The Surface Dial will probably drop in price or perhaps we will see less expensive imitations in the not so distant future.
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[Charlie Austin] “I have no desire to wave my hands around on a touchscreen day after day.”
Maybe you just need to re-conceptualize it as “edit Tai Chi?”
Center yourself – time to edit.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[andy patterson]”I know what the Fairlight surface control (keyboard) looks like. My point is that it will get smudges. It will probably be harder to clean a control surface device than a touch screen. ”
As a long term user I am telling you that is not the case so your point is not made with me.
[andy paterson]”we will probably see more touch screens on the market and the price will probably drop as well. Price vs functionality will probably play a role for most users. Wouldn’t you agree?”
A whole generation is becoming accustomed to touch screen and they are getting better and cheaper so I would agree. It doesn’t alter my long experience with all alternatives and I still find properly designed ergonomic dedicated controllers superior. I have many years experience of switching between DAWs with dedicated controllers and NLEs without. NLEs are much harder on the body and slower to perform tasks. This is not just hardware but software. As few editors cover the range of software that I do I am not surprised they don’t appreciate the benefits of dedicated hardware and well written software. Smart things like dials on the Surface are a hybrid with merit. Same for touchbars versus function keys but as always ergonomics are so often overlooked in all touch based applications.
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[Andrew Kimery] “If only a keyboard like the Optimus Maximus was in mass production (and didn’t cost a fortune).”
It is an idea very similar to the Fairlight controller but implemented differently with transparent keycaps and changing display underneath, in this case individual OLEDs.
I still think the Fairlight controller with dedicated jog, transport and touch sensitive rotary pots is superior.
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[Michael Gissing] “I still think the Fairlight controller with dedicated jog, transport and touch sensitive rotary pots is superior.”
Probably, though the downside to dedicated controllers like that is cost, learning curve and it possibly not supporting all the apps one needs it to support. Keyboards aren’t primary interfaces for NLEs because they are great at being primary interfaces for NLEs, they are primary interfaces because they are ubiquitous. There will be pockets of people that like and use other peripherals, but most people will stick with the keyboard and mouse/trackpad because that’s what they know and are comfortable with.
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[Michael Gissing] “[andy patterson]”I know what the Fairlight surface control (keyboard) looks like. My point is that it will get smudges. It will probably be harder to clean a control surface device than a touch screen. ”
As a long term user I am telling you that is not the case so your point is not made with me.”
My Cellphone never needs cleaning either. See my point? I bet if you took a white cloth to the Fairlight surface control the white cloth would in fact become dirty. That is my point little buckaroo. It is not so filthy you cannot use it. I don’t use my audio board that much but when I do clean it the white Q-Tips turn black. All devices will get filthy and smudgy. Why you are only bother about the touch screen getting smudgy is beyond me. By the way it does take longer to clean my control surface, audio board and keyboard than it does to clean a screen.
[Michael Gissing] “[andy paterson]”we will probably see more touch screens on the market and the price will probably drop as well. Price vs functionality will probably play a role for most users. Wouldn’t you agree?”
A whole generation is becoming accustomed to touch screen and they are getting better and cheaper so I would agree. It doesn’t alter my long experience with all alternatives and I still find properly designed ergonomic dedicated controllers superior. I have many years experience of switching between DAWs with dedicated controllers and NLEs without. NLEs are much harder on the body and slower to perform tasks. This is not just hardware but software. As few editors cover the range of software that I do I am not surprised they don’t appreciate the benefits of dedicated hardware and well written software. Smart things like dials on the Surface are a hybrid with merit. Same for touchbars versus function keys but as always ergonomics are so often overlooked in all touch based applications.”
That is my point. The Surface Dial combined with a touch screen may add some functionality that a control surface cannot. As others have pointed touch screen monitors work right out of the box. Some of the control surfaces are expensive not to mention the fact that touch screens will get better and better and devices like the Surface Dial will get better and better. As I have stated a lot will depend on the software being used. Cakewalk, Premiere and Photoshop all have a GUI with total customization. Pinnacle Studio and FCPX do not. When using multiple monitors with touch screen capability you can really have a lot of functionality if the GUI offers 100% customization.
I am not saying touch screens will be the best option for everyone or even be the best option for video editing in 2021 . I am saying for some software titles and some users it might be better than using control surfaces. Having said that I highly doubt the Apple engineers are saying the Surface Studio sucks ass but who knows for sure? I do know there are Apple users who want OS X to get touch screen support and they have valid reason for wanting touch screen support.
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[andy patterson] “Having said that I highly doubt the Apple engineers are saying the Surface Studio sucks ass but who knows for sure? I do know there are Apple users who want OS X to get touch screen support and they have valid reason for wanting touch screen support.”
Unfortunately the problem with touch interfaces based on fingers instead of a stylus is that they require a fatter target area. This results in interfaces with larger buttons and less fine detail. Sony’s Catalyst software is an example of an interface designed to be touch-friendly. This might change in the future, but a lot of aspects of FCPX3’s new UI are not conducive to touch operation.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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