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Serious conforming issues
Hi all!
I’m a colleague of Ben Wharton’s and we’re working on the same project. We’ve been having a multitude of issues with FCP (version 5.1 on PPC, 4x edit/composite stations on XSAN) and I was wondering if anyone else has come across this particular one.
We’ve shot on a combination of HDCAM and HDV, digitising all rushes at SD-DV for an offline edit and then conforming at uncompressed HD (via Kona hardware) for the composite. We’re conforming the HDV as uncompressed through a Convergent Design HD-Connect using RS-422 and HD-SDI, in order to keep all of the codecs and settings the same.
The issue is that the timecode on the offline edit is innacurate, on some of the tapes. Primarily the 1st camera, HDCAM tapes. They’ve been digitised and conformed from the same deck (a Sony J-H3), the offline digitise tried both through the firewire connector and using the Kona to downrez. Strangely, it only affects some of the tapes – and we’ve checked for the usual glitches like timecode breaks to no avail.
We know that it’s the offline timecode that’s inaccurate because we’ve back-checked. What happens is, conformed clips are out of sync with where they were in the offline (we’re pulling in picture and sound, so the sound stays in sync on the conform), by anywhere between 10-15 frames and 10 seconds. Checking across the projects, the timecodes match between the online and offline. Using BITC on the deck, we’ve also verified that the online timecode is accurate, i.e. the video frame in the conform corresponds to the video frame on the tape at that timecode.
So the offline timecodes are partially inaccurate, and our already overworked edit-assistant is now having to double-check and resync every conformed sequence (it’s over two hours split into two to five minute segments, in two languages), before we go to graphics. Since the material for the sound mix was taken from the offline version a couple of weeks back, we also run the risk of having to resync chunks when the sound comes back from mix as well. Plus there’s a chance that some ADR will be needed which is only going to add to the fun…
Has anyone else seen problems like this? Any solutions would be gratefully accepted…
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7 Replies
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What frame rate did you shoot? What frame rate did you offline to? What frame are you conforming to?
For future edits, I would strongly suggest using DVCPro HD as your offline codec and using the EXACT same frame rate settings as your camera / HD conform. From what you’re saying I can only guess that you shot and are conforming to 23.98 while your offline was 29.97. That can lead to TC issues when conforming.
We had this very issue when we first started testing Good Eats which was originally shot in 23.98, cut in SD in 29.97 and then we tried to conform to 23.98 here and had all kinds of TC issues because some TC was “missing” from the SD offline.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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‘Fraid not – we’re in the UK, and have used 50i all through. I’ve had those kind of issues with DVCPro, but we’ve stayed fully Sony on this project 🙁 Thanks anyway…
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[bodgetastic] “‘Fraid not – we’re in the UK, and have used 50i all through. I’ve had those kind of issues with DVCPro, but we’ve stayed fully Sony on this project 🙁 Thanks anyway…”
Hmmm, then I am stumped. 1080i/50 is 25fps so it should match your DV PAL TC exactly.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[walter biscardi] “1080i/50 is 25fps so it should match your DV PAL TC exactly”
Yeah thats what I thought – the strange thing is that the timecodes do match, but the picture and sound seem to have gone out of sync in the offline digitise. And even then it matches fine on most of the tapes, its just the odd one or two where weve had this problem which confuses me even more…
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We have similar problems with HDcam material – and HDCam SR. We have offlined on Avid using the J-H3, and onlined on FCP using the SRW5500 Hdcam SR machine. The offline is off by 1-12 frames on some clips. On these, it is definitely the timecode reference in the Avid that is off.
Another problem is FCP related. On some clips, Final Cut is starting to record from the preroll point instead of the in point. If we have set the preroll to 5 seconds, the clips are 5 seconds out of sync in the online! Really bizarre.
The source tapes for this is HDCam SR, two cameras recorded simultaneously on one tape.
We are using Decklink cards.
All in all, we have a lot of manual tweaking ahead of us. -
Have you tried sending a cutting copy to both online and audio post?
In the offline, nest your master sequence in a new sequence. Add the timecode filter onto the nest to show the program’s timecode (i.e. program starts at 01:00:00:00). Add 2-pops too.
Print that to tape, or export a quicktime. Ingest that into the online system.
Sync up the cutting copy to your capture sequence. Set the composite mode to subtract. Bring some clips in. If clips are in sync, then you’ll just see black + the timecode. If they are not in sync, then you see weirdness. Use the slip tool (s) to slip things back into place (use the mouse of the keyboard/numpad).
This won’t work if the footage is several frames off. But at least online + audio post will be working off the same page?
2- When capturing clips for offline, what if you take the composite out (super) off the VTR into your system with character/timecode on. Will that alert you of cases where the timecode and picture are not in sync?
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Thanks Glenn,
This is more or less what we do, except that we use normal composite mode with the opacity set to 50 percent. I’ll try the subtract trick on the next episode.
The offline is the reference for both audio post and picture online.
A keyboard macro recorder (Belkin Nostromo:-) is a great help, and speeds up the process. One key is programmed to the following keystrokes:
x
alt-a
s
Then I can trim with the keyboard until the pictures lines up.
This does not help with the FCP capture bug though, because I only have 15 frames handles, and the picture is five seconds out of sync!
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