Seems adobe have released everything BUT what we all need

[Lyn Norstad]

I heard there was quite a buzz going on over here … wow!

Let me just add a tiny note right here, Herb

[Herb Sevush] “Output – PPRO has the ability to burn DVDs from the timeline; unfortunately this feature rarely works, at least in my case.”

I use this all the time, and I have to say it’s worked for me. Never had a bad burn. For kiosks, trade shows, etc., it’s a huge timesaver.

Regards,
Lyn Norstad

[Herb Sevush]

Steve –

Why is this any better than simply breaking the audio to mono in the bin, laying both audio tracks and video to the timeline, and then grouping them together.

I can see the advantage in applying different filters or levels to the different tracks, but my MAIN conern is the ability to go from ch.1 alone to Ch.2 alone to both 1+2 and so on – all within the same clip – as I might for a long talking head shot with the guest on 1 ch and the host on another. At other times I might have a host on ch.1 and Nat Ambient sound on ch.2 – and I might want to slip some Ch.2 sound into a hole in track 1 to cover.

I do dozens if not hundreds of these type of cuts a day and I son’t see how your solution makes this as easy as it is on any other system I’ve ever worked with.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Ron Shook]

David,

[David Cherniack] “But let’s face it, with stories like what’s come down in this thread we’re not likely to see the core design issues fixed. Maybe after a hue and cry when 2 comes out, but then it could well be another two year wait.”

I’m not quite that pessimistic, with still a little bit left in my wait and see tank. (g) After all, perhaps because it’s been 2 years or nearly so when 2.0 is finally out, I have some hope that the dozens of design flaws will be whittled to a manageable number, but…, like I said before, if this stereo audio thing isn’t licked by at least far more efficient workarounds, No Way. That’s just too basic and necessary. What value is it to me to get the very great wow capabilities of Axio at a premium price, to give twice as much time saved back doing audio contortions? We are talking pretty much amongst the old edit* guard here and none of us are PPro experts, so maybe we’ve missed something. I hope that an expert can disabuse us with some reasonable workarounds. I haven’t heard any yet.

Ron

[Steve Spaw]

[Herb Sevush] “I son’t see how your solution makes this as easy as it is on any other system I’ve ever worked with.”

I didn’t say that it was, It is just what I do. take it or leave it.

[Herb Sevush] “I can see the advantage in applying different filters or levels to the different tracks,”

This is exactly why I use it.

Your Mileage may vary.

Steve

[Tim Kolb]

Unfortunately the only way I’ve found to handle this in PPro v1.5 is to select the clip in the Project Window, go to Clip>Audio Options>Breakout to Mono Clips.

This will break the Video+Stereo Audio file into three files,a video and two mono audio files. These need to be placed on the timeline and manually synced…if they’re untrimmed they could ‘snap’…and select them all, right click and select “Group.”

I’m NOT saying it’s a good way…I’m saying it’s the only way I’ve found. We do more than our share of “Fill Right” and “Fill Left” around here for sure.

TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, “The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro” http://www.focalpress.com
“Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series” http://www.classondemand.net

[Les Kaye]

Thanks for the detailed response (again), Herb. I generally find it unseemly when someone enters a “home” here on the COW, only to trash the software before asking for help. Thus I’ll try to be more tactful.

[Herb Sevush] “Less menu’s, less buttons, more consistency in commands – at the price of less functionality”
Bingo! I was initially very surprised at the VERY SIMILAR UI and workflow similarities between FCP & PPro – i.e. toolbar, timeline editing, more gestural and less modal than Avid. OTOH – yes, IMHO there is considerably less functionality in PPRO than FCP or Avid. (ALERT – I’m not dissing PPro and saying NO functionality – but in my VERY LIMITED use, I’m agreeing that it just seems less).

[Herb Sevush] “CG – FCP’s internal CG is incredibly primitive”
Yep, FCP certainly could use something more useful for fast creative titling. OTOH, I use LiveType & Motion for the graphics that I need, so I don’t feel a loss. That’s not to say this is true for others (as you yourself feel differently). Still, it is amusing that FCP bundles 3 basic titlers (Text Generator, Boris & Typewriter) that could be handled by one good program like Inscriber.

[Herb Sevush] “Data Management
The joys of having an assistant editor – stuff I don’t have to deal with, so I won’t be hypocritical and discuss things I don’t worry about. Other than it does seem a pleasure in FCP (as opposed to Avid) to deal natively with Quicktime.

[Herb Sevush] “Editing – FCP has the incredible bug of destroying all renders if you mute a video track – this bug has been around for so long they no longer even try to fix it.
Yep – not a bug, but a pretty stupid design flaw. OTOH, as in PPro, you can turn off “Enable” for the clips in question. While it’s not an elegant workaround, at least it’s a workaround. But yes, this should be addressed.

[Herb Sevush] “All in all I find FCP much easier to cut with but much harder to learn.”
Yes, in spite of it’s flaws, (and considerable strengths), FCP is very deep. In fact I’m surprised at its depth. Not everyone needs all this functionality, just like not everyone needs the functionality in PPro. However, when a feature is needed, it’s good to know it’s there.

[Herb Sevush] “Output – PPRO has the ability to burn DVDs from the timeline; unfortunately this feature rarely works”
I thought this feature was in FCP as well. In any case, I haven’t used this, so I can’t comment.

[Herb Sevush] “Real-Time – If you want real-time then get PPRO with Axio, otherwise there is no such thing on either system, except for draft resolutions. There is nothing like Axio in the FCP world.”
Um, not sure what you mean. The Kona 2 doesn’t deliver all the real-time multiple streams that’s in Axio, but I’m having no problems doing real time work using DVCPRO HD. Yes I need to render certain effects, but it renders fairly quickly. While this is fine for my workflow, it may not be for others, so Axio should be a solution for those where realtime streams are more important.

As some of members of the discete edit forum are aware, I’ve beeb working at a facility that started with Avid Adrenaline HD, and then changed to FCP. This doesn’t mean that Avid was terrible – only that it didn’t serve our needs. The same is true of FCP as it is with PPro. Not every tool is useful for every user.

[Steve Spaw]

I forgot to answer this

[Herb Sevush] “Why is this any better than simply breaking the audio to mono in the bin, laying both audio tracks and video to the timeline, and then grouping them together.”

You are really creating a “fill right” and a “fill Left” track in Premiere speak. You just put the audio on the track that corresponds with the audio track that you want to hear. This way you don not have to do anything to the clips differently in the bin. I have found the “break clips” to be a pain for me.

Steve

[Ron Shook]

Tim,

Thanks for settling that one. Oh, well. (g)

Ron

[Ron Shook]

Tim,

[Tim Kolb] “Unfortunately the only way I’ve found to handle this in PPro v1.5 is to select the clip in the Project Window, go to Clip>Audio Options>Breakout to Mono Clips.

This will break the Video+Stereo Audio file into three files,a video and two mono audio files. These need to be placed on the timeline and manually synced…if they’re untrimmed they could ‘snap’…and select them all, right click and select “Group.””

I’ve ranted and railed on this thread, so it’s only fair that I should indicate what I’d like to see, even if it has no effect.

Your answer indicates that both stereo and mono audio clips can be used on the PPro timeline. That’s a good thing and a good start.

1. The fact that the breakout to mono clips leaves the video and audio unsynced from the original clip forcing manual resyncing on the timeline is by far the most ridiculous and unwieldy part of the audio handling, IMO, and the reason I couldn’t live with this as is for any more than a short length of time. If this were fixed I could live with it until the following features were implimented.

2. Allow capture and import to have selectable preferences for video + stereo audio automatically panned L & R by default, or video + 2 mono tracks automatically panned center by default. Everything synced until you say otherwise, of course.

3. Allow capture and import to also have preferences for capture and import of video + either audio track 1 or 2.

These are in order of importance, 1 & 2 being critical to any NLE that calls itself “Pro.”

Ron Shook

[Marisu Fronc]

Ron-

[Ron Shook] “both stereo and mono audio clips can be used on the PPro timeline”

This is true, but NOT on the same track – you need to specify if you want a mono or a stereo track, if you aren’t careful you can get things you want together all higgledy-piggeldy across them – or tracks stacked in an order that is confusing at best (especially if you regularly with with an audio sweetener who is used to a certain layout (ie: VO on ch 1, interviews ch2, sync ch3, sfx ch 4-6 and music ch 7 & 8). Certainly not a BIG deal, but I’d love to be able to reorder the audio tracks once on the TL, and I’d REALLY love to be able to put mono and stereo clips on the same track fi they are the same TYPE of thing (sync for example).

slainte,
marisu