Red Epic and FCP workflow having transcoded ProRes offlines outside of FCP

[Jeremy Garchow]

I have some suggestions, but do you know how the LT files were made?

Using RCX I take it?

[Dan Gibling]

Yes thats correct, in Redcine-x. According to the DIT it was a very basic transcode, just selecting ProRes (lt), 25fp and 1920×1080 – leaving all other settings as they come.

Hope this helps.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dan Gibling] “Hope this helps.”

Absolutely.

As far as the logging, you can change whatever you want in FCP. Rename, add markers/notes/descriptions, just don’t rename the original files. This way you have clip name, tc and reel to allow a reconnect.

At the end, you will export a simple cuts only XML/EDL to RCX (or RCX Pro, which is a bit better as it handles multiple video layers and other upgrades, but still in beta) and you can then either retranscode or connect to R3D and grade there, or export flat Log movies for a grade. You can then send an XML back to FCP and reconnect to the transcoded material.

Epic files aren’t supported in Color, unfortunately. I recently completed an edit which had some Epic footage and I wanted to grade in Color. I did my edit, sent an XML to RCX Pro, and rendered out flat ProRes 444 movies @ Red Log Film. This allowed me to get a decent grade out of Color as it’s the tool I have for now. Other tools will allow you to grade right from the Epic R3D files.

Color/Quicktime only allows files that are 4000×4000 so you won’t be able to render at the full 5K using a QT movie.

What is your deliverable?

Jeremy

[Dan Gibling]

Jeremy,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and impart your knowledge, it restores faith…

So working without Resolve or the like, and with what I have (FCP, Redcine-X pro and Colour) this is my intended workflow, could you let me know if ive understood correctly?:

Simple 1 or 2 layer sequence in fcp, export XML.
Open XML in Redcine-x Pro
Retranscode timeline to 2k Pro-Res 4444 and export XML
Open XML in FCP.
Send this sequence to colour and grade as normal.

So I am right in thinking I cant ‘create’ the kind of r3D files that I am used to grading in colour, that bring up the Red tab where i can change the ISO etc?

What are the ‘flat Log movies’ you speak of?

My output format will be 1080 Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) and a variety of compressed h264’s, nothing too high end.

Many thanks again Jeremy,

Dan

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dan Gibling] ”
Simple 1 or 2 layer sequence in fcp, export XML.
Open XML in Redcine-x Pro
Retranscode timeline to 2k Pro-Res 4444 and export XML
Open XML in FCP.
Send this sequence to colour and grade as normal.
“

Yes, that’s one way to do it. To preserve the most dynamic range, I’d set the color space to redcolor2 and the gamma to red log film and render. This will give you a flat baseline to work from in Color.

Try some test shots to see if you like it. You can always render with another gamma curve if you don’t like log.

If going this route, you will not have the Red tab controls in Color. Color does not support Epic files, unfortunately.

If you like the Raw tools, you can grade in rcxpro if you’d like, but you’ll need a red rocket card to get video out to a monitor.

[Dan Gibling] “What are the ‘flat Log movies’ you speak of?”

If you choose to use Color, you’d render your 444 transcodes out of RCX/Pro with a gamma curve called Red Log Film. This compresses the dynamic range logarithmically preserving highlights and shadows. The image will look very flat/washed out. In Color, you would then pull the dynamic range apart and restore a vibrant image.

This method takes a bit more grunt work over the red raw tools, but yields great results.

It really depends on of you want to use color without raw tools, or use rcxpro with raw tools.

Do you typically use a broadcast monitor?

[Dan Gibling]

this is great Jeremy, my understanding is increasing…

I do not use a broadcast monitor at home – frustratingly the iMac does not seem easily compatible with getting out of the baked in colour space when sending out to a monitor, so after much debate i realised most people viewing my work would do so on a mac or a PC from vimeo or youtube – so I grade to those screens only.

Transcoding to Red Log film gamma curve and sending to Colour sounds the way to go. I did like the red raw tools, but what is Rcxp like as a grading program? Is there the ability to grade secondaries, track vignettes etc? If not id rather stick with the program and procedures i am familiar with.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dan Gibling] “Transcoding to Red Log film gamma curve and sending to Colour sounds the way to go. I did like the red raw tools, but what is Rcxp like as a grading program?”

It’s designed to give you Red tools for a primary grade (and is also used for conform/transcode). It is the Red Color tab on steroids.

There’s no tracking or secondaries. RCX Pro gives you Alchemy and some other Red specific “exposure” tools.

If you’re so inclined, you can do a primary grade in RCX, render out with the baked color/gamma of your choice, then finish all your secondaries in Color. It’s worth playing around to see what will work for you.

The Red workflow is very flexible.

Jeremy

[Zach Nasits]

This theory seems to be quite logical.

I am having some major issues with the roundtrip from FCP with LT files to REDCine-X 506, for which I plan to export final 4K RedLog Film Files. I simplified my FCP timeline to the most simple form.

There are a couple of issues I am running into..

1. FCP xml to RedCine doesn’t bring up proper in/outs in RCX timeline. Correct clip but wrong in/out points. SO. I resorted to EDL’s from FCP to RedCine, which do seem to match up.

2. Once I re-render RedLogFilm Files from REDCINE-X, I am not finding an XML method that allows FCP to re-create the RedCine X timeline in FCP???!?

At some point in testing phases, I recall that RedCine generated an “fcp XML” in the render directory, but now there is no XML showing up… and yes I have it selected in the output module.

When I export XML from the File menu in RCX, it translates back to the .R3D file, which is not supported in FCP or Color.

Any advice on how to retain the “FCP XML” export that used to show up in my RCX render directory?

Thank You,

Zach

[Jeremy Garchow]

What camera did you shoot with? Red One, Epic, Scarlet? I know you mentioned 4K.

[zach nasits] “1. FCP xml to RedCine doesn’t bring up proper in/outs in RCX timeline. Correct clip but wrong in/out points. SO. I resorted to EDL’s from FCP to RedCine, which do seem to match up.”

Are you sure the frame rate is matching? Any speed changes?

[zach nasits] “2. Once I re-render RedLogFilm Files from REDCINE-X, I am not finding an XML method that allows FCP to re-create the RedCine X timeline in FCP???!? “

You should be able to to simply reconnect to the new media in FCP (dupe your timeline first)

Jeremy

[Zach Nasits]

Footage was shot with Epic, mix of 4k and 5k. I understand being able to relink manually, but feel like the XML roundtrip should work.

However, I was wrong in thinking that as RedCine506 seemed to be the issue with the XML out.

Seems to work okay with older version RCX501 thus far… think I will wait before going to Pro or 506.

Thanks and this is what I got so far.

ZN

ps. Premier is looking pretty good when I launch it and scrub through my .R3D files natively…. may have to learn a new editor.