Progress!

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Bill Davis] “If your standard is “replication” then nope.

But what if your standard is “access to satisfying entertainment at an affordable price.””

Recording on a cell phone and posting it to the web aside, what action in that video couldn’t be done 20 years ago in 1993?

Seriously, I’m curious.

[Bill Davis]

[Herb Sevush] “Why would I want to reduce the beauty of a live performance with a youtube recording?
“

Yeah!

Screw those guys on PBS and Bernstein and Tosconnini, and all the other traitors who did visual recordings of music that we all know must be seen live in order to be valid.

The dolts.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Oliver Peters]

[Bill Davis] “If I’d wandered into that Pizza joint, it looks like I would have had free access to a wonderfully entertaining experience that embodies a HUGE and satisfying helping of the original work – for the price of a pizza.”

Good grief! That’s the standard by which you are making a judgment? And then somehow extrapolating that to software? By that yardstick cat videos on YouTube are an equal quality measurement.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Gary Huff]

[Bill Davis] “Screw those guys on PBS and Bernstein and Tosconnini, and all the other traitors who did visual recordings of music that we all know must be seen live in order to be valid.”

That was a really nice strawman you made there. Quite a striking likeness!

[Bill Davis]

Seriously,

I could never have stumbled across it burried five layers deep in the comment section of a non-related Reddit post (reddit didn’t exist 20 years ago) – I wouldn’t have been schooled that there’s little or no penalty to take a moment from my busy day to click and follow that link and enjoy the music.

I wasn’t on Creative Cow 20 years ago, so I couldn’t have shared the link.

Plus, 20 years ago, I wouldn’t have been doing my work from my own studio – making possible a situation where I don’t have to sit in someone elses office following their rules for how I spend my time.

So if your point is that the creation tools are functionally no different – then OK. I can accept that since I don’t know enough about music performance to know whether the duo was using tech that wasn’t readily available to guys in bars 20 years ago to affordably re-create the sounds that took a million dollar studio back in Toto’s era of prime popularity. . But literlly EVERYTHING else about how this discussion is taking place supported by new methods of social interaction and data plumbing that were’s pervasive 20 years ago.

So that may be seen as progress. At least by me.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Charlie Austin]

Umm, it’s a couple guys doing an acoustic cover. What technology are you talking about? Other than the video quality and a decent recording, this was being done by countless cover bands the week that song first hit the charts…

————————————————————-

~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Gary Huff]

[Bill Davis] “Consistency is a cruel mistress, huh.”

I’m not sure what “consistency” has to do with comments from two different people.

And you don’t have to “forget what you know”…FCPX does the same things in a slightly different way.

[Bill Davis]

[Oliver Peters] “By that yardstick cat videos on YouTube are an equal quality measurement.”

Well yes.

Some of the cat video on YouTube are actually kinda wonderful. Not all, but plenty. And so wha’ts your point? that because it’s a cat video it therefore must be viewed as crap?

Wow to that view. Heck, IMO, Nyan Cat is no less culturally potent than other huge swaths of artistic work over time. And like it or not, Grumpy Cat more money (and WAY more people smile) than any of us managed to over the past year.

Hell, The Monkees were important to their audience in their heyday at a level close to that of the Beatles. But remember, that the Beatles achieved massive popularity at a time when they weren’t particularly artistically potent at all. I Want to Hold Your Hand wan’t exactly musical Proust – but it still struck emotional chords in human beings that resonate to this day.

I actually don’t think you or I or anyone else is particularly qualified to tell anyone else what constitutes a “quality” entertainment experience for them.

In some of the seminars I did on video production back in the day, I would commonly to argue in FAVOR or the need to edit something like a wedding video (a form I never participated in, sadly, but one for which I have a lot of respect) very differently from a typical video work – precisely because the primary audience for that work would have a massive internal dialog taking place when they watched it. And what would seem to be an massively overlong slow pan of the crowd – one that would bore a typical audience to death – would NOT bore the audience that the video was addressing. They’d be saying “oh, look – there’s Uncle Jim – before he lost all that weight” and a thousand other internal references that meant something to that viewer that would escape another one.

I don’t enjoy the old song “Louie Louie” because it was great musical art. I enjoy the hell out of hearing it because it reminds me of an era and a set of feelings that make me smile. I remember being a little kid and trying to hear the “dirty” lyrics. With my friends. After school.

And you can argue the simple chords, inarticulate phrasing and dismal production values all you like – but it’s a BETTER piece of lasting work for me than a hundred Montivanni recordings done in Capitol Studios with the finest orchestral contractors on the planet.

We’re all snobs about stuff.

What’s tiresome is never coming to understand that the stuff we’re snobs about isn’t necessarily the stuff that other people are snobs about. And presupposing that our brand of snobbery is superior to theirs.

And Yep, that’s me as much as anyone else.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Herb Sevush]

[Bill Davis] “Screw those guys on PBS and Bernstein and Tosconnini, and all the other traitors who did visual recordings of music that we all know must be seen live in order to be valid. The dolts.”

What is it Bill, you having problems reading English today.

I specifically said that it order to make up for missing the “live”ness of a performance you have to have world class recordings. It’s really a simple pleasure equation: live performance with average musicians = recorded performance with great musicians. Best of all is live performance with great musicians, but for that you have to give up the pizza.

And yes, live is better than recorded in most circumstances, be it music, dance or baseball. That doesn’t mean I’m against broadcasting Yankee games, but it does mean there’s no TV in the world that beats going to a playoff game at Yankee Stadium at nite.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Bill Davis] “But literlly EVERYTHING else about how this discussion is taking place supported by new methods of social interaction and data plumbing that were’s pervasive 20 years ago.

So that may be seen as progress. At least by me.”

I am just wondering what the “Progress!” you are trying to point out exactly, using the cover band as an exmaple. In 1993, you could have put this on CompuServe or AOL?

YouTube went online 7 years ago. Yes, the internet has grown up a lot since the 90s and since 2005.

There is no doubt that fundamental methods of communication are changing since I can instantly show you where I am, instead having to describe it in a letter and you read it a week later, is that what we are really talking about here?

1993, you could have a cover band at a pizza joint so we can’t really be talking about the obvious. Ironically, YouTube started in offices above a pizza joint.