Premiere Pro CC versus FCP X

[Erik Lindahl]

It’s against the ELUA but primarily we’d need to log in with a companies Apple ID, expose a joint credit card etc. It’s a very in-elegant way of dealing with things. It would mean me dealing with a third Apple ID, two as it is today is messy enough.

[Brett Sherman]

I think it depends on whether you see plan to hire yourself out as a freelance editor or work with projects that have been started by someone else in other editing programs. In those cases, having a good working knowledge of other programs, if not mastery, helps.

But, if you plan to control your own projects, there isn’t that much advantage to learning another program. While a particular edit may be slightly easier in another program, getting to that point of mastery is a huge investment in time. Especially when you’re new, your time may be better spent mastering the program you use. And mastering editing techniques, audio mixing, color correction theory, etc. that are helpful regardless of program.

[Brett Sherman]

[David Lawrence] “Not only that, three years later and you still can’t do a simple copy/overwrite paste of audio in the primary.

Epic FAIL.”

I’m not sure I’d call that a FAIL at all. If I understand what you’re talking about (and maybe I don’t) typically this operation is used to replace audio in an interview or actuality with blank ambiance. You’re right, the structure of X doesn’t allow that, and won’t ever. But, it’s not something I do a lot of. And certainly there are plenty of ways to accomplish that with attached audio files in X. However the structure of combining video and audio together, rather than as separate tracks, saves me a lot of time in my bread and butter editing operations.

If we’re going on one particular feature. I’d call Premiere Pro and Epic FAIL for not being able to open more than one project at a time. I do this on a daily basis to pull a single clip from one library into another library. Or copy and paste between timelines in different libraries.

[David Lawrence]

[Brett Sherman] “I’m not sure I’d call that a FAIL at all. If I understand what you’re talking about (and maybe I don’t) typically this operation is used to replace audio in an interview or actuality with blank ambiance. You’re right, the structure of X doesn’t allow that, and won’t ever. But, it’s not something I do a lot of.”

There’s absolutely no technical reason why the timeline structure won’t allow this. You can already do it from the browser.

[Brett Sherman] “I’d call Premiere Pro and Epic FAIL for not being able to open more than one project at a time.”

It’s a bit of an annoyance, but Adobe addressed it pretty nicely by allowing us to peek into projects and selectively import individual sequences and media assets. At this point it’s basically a non-issue for me.

On the other hand, select/copy/overwrite paste audio is something I might do hundreds of times an hour when editing dialog or interview actuality.

Select/copy/overwrite paste isn’t just an NLE thing. It’s one of the most basic actions on any type of digital editor. Even freaking TextEdit does it!

The fact that three years out, it’s still missing from the FCPX timeline is mind-boggling and simply indefensible. That’s why I call it an epic FAIL.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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[Andrew Kimery]

[Craig Alan] “Yes Apple is secretive about stuff they are working on, their plans. However, I really doubt Apple knows what they plan to do 5 years in advance. I don’t think they planned to move to the library structure they have now. I think sales and yes even user feedback and where other companies go are all variables. Not to mention the availability of creative talent and patent rights and so forth. “

I would be surprised if Apple didn’t project 5-10 years into the future with its product roadmaps. Do they map out every feature to the day? No. Do things change? Yes, and I think it’s safe to assume they set short, medium and long term goals to keep development focused and moving forward.

[Craig Alan] “However, for independent producers and jack of all production trades, learn a work flow and get good with it. If the rug gets pulled out from under you, like it was for many with FCP 7, learn something else.”

If you are familiar with multiple NLEs and workflows then you’ll be much less likely to get the rug pulled out from under you, IMO. I’m not saying you have to be expert at multiple NLEs, but just be aware of what other options exist. In my experience the people that were the most shellshocked by the X bomb were FCP users that had little to no experience with other NLEs and pretty much assumed they’d be using FCP until the day they retired. On the other hand, people I knew that experience with multiple NLEs were more likely to roll with the punches.

[Craig Alan]

Little confused David. How would you paste overwrite just the audio from the browser onto an A/V clip without first breaking apart the audio?

Also can you paste overwrite the visual on the timeline? I can insert and connect but I can’t seem to overwrite except from the browser.

The only way I know to select a timeline clip, audio or visual, and paste it as an overwrite in the timeline: select it, reveal in browser, and then overwrite.

Am I behind the times?

[Brett Sherman] “You’re right, the structure of X doesn’t allow that, and won’t ever. “

I can’t imagine that anything prevents Apple from writing code that will allow this feature/behavior.
You can detach audio from an A/V clip.
You can overwrite from start to an audio clip.
You can form a compound clip of the attached audio and visual clip.

So all Apple would need to do is write a script and a short cut to perform it.
And it would be nice to have something similar to a compound clip that did not adhere to all the parent child save in the browser behaviors. And be able to break apart this compound like clip and reassemble.

Also it would be nice if you did overwrite dialog to have a little symbol on the clip that shows you that the original audio was over-written.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

[Andrew Kimery] “I would be surprised if Apple didn’t project 5-10 years into the future with its product roadmaps”

They might have some projections but I don’t think they know that much detail 5 years in advance other wise they never would have changed the organizational structure in major ways twice so far in 3 years.

[Andrew Kimery] “If you are familiar with multiple NLEs and workflows then you’ll be much less likely to get the rug pulled out from under you, IMO. I’m not saying you have to be expert at multiple NLEs, but just be aware of what other options exist.”

I can’t disagree there and putting it another way – you need to learn how to learn. When FCP 7 was announced as EOL but still alive and kicking as it is still … I used it for another 2 years as I looked at other NLEs. I took a course in AVID and FCP X. Since I need to teach HS kids, I was very conflicted initially. I knew I could learn either one but was not so sure that AVID would work for a lot of the students. It was a harder learning curve and harder for me to learn the media management. It’s not too Mac like. FCP X was under such heavy criticism that I wasn’t sure I’d be teaching “professional” practices. FCP began to get mixed reviews and I needed to make a decision. About that time I heard that AVID was bleeding red and FCP’s jury was still out. I started to consider premier and then Adobe went to the monthly bill thing and that took care of that. So I decided on FCP X and it is a great fit for the classroom. I have kids up and editing within minutes. I do the media organization for them except for advanced kids but it’s been a good fit. Any student that might consider editing on a professional level – I tell them they need to learn as many programs as they can including AVID, resolve, CC, pro tools. Most of them can’t afford it but their college will. And unlike in the first year of FCP X, the colleges do use it and allow students to submit projects with it. They also teach the others.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[David Lawrence]

[Craig Alan] “Little confused David. How would you paste overwrite just the audio from the browser onto an A/V clip without first breaking apart the audio?”

Craig, you are right, apologies for the confusion. What I meant is that you can do an overwrite edit from the browser that overwrites audio as well as video. There needs to be a paste mode in the timeline that works the same way.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
https://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums

[Craig Alan]

Thanks David.
It is an obvious and weird omission. FCP X is full of stuff that can be done in one instance and not another.

So if you want to overwrite audio using timeline clips (I’m not suggesting this for you, just trying to learn for myself, aka I’m not close to being at your level):

shift-3 (audio only edits)
select primary storyline sequence that contains the dialog
control-shift-S to detach audio
select detached audio clips
command-G (create storyline)
select an audio clip within the new storyline
shift-F (reveal in browser)
select range to be overwritten
D (overwrite)

so shift-F instead of command-C
R click to select audio clip to be overwritten
D instead of command-V.
then if you wish to keep individual clips magnetic
select the audio storyline and shift-command-G to break apart audio storyline

Perhaps on your level???-
https://fcpx.tv/Pages/tracks.html

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Brett Sherman]

[Craig Alan] “I can’t imagine that anything prevents Apple from writing code that will allow this feature/behavior.
You can detach audio from an A/V clip.
You can overwrite from start to an audio clip.
You can form a compound clip of the attached audio and visual clip.

So all Apple would need to do is write a script and a short cut to perform it.
And it would be nice to have something similar to a compound clip that did not adhere to all the parent child save in the browser behaviors. And be able to break apart this compound like clip and reassemble.”

From the FCP X timeline design you can’t have an audio track within the primary that is a separate clip from the video that’s in the primary.

What you suggesting is a bit convoluted (no offense) creating a compound that doesn’t behave like a compound. Remaining editable in the timeline but a container of sorts. It would be a whole new object in the FCP X logic. Maybe “never” is too strong, but I just don’t see it happening.

I don’t do dialogue editing, but I edit the heck out of interview clips and have rarely desired this capability. 98% of the time if I’m cutting audio, I’m also cutting video or I have a B-roll shot that covers the cut anyways. Different strokes I suppose.