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Premiere Pro CC versus FCP X
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[Oliver Peters] “”Avid is not an open timeline.””
fair enough on everything else but – I meant open as in pliable.
[Oliver Peters] “In fact, that’s basically how X works. I think what you are really reacting to is how filler (blank space) is handled.”
frankly they can both go to hell. video objects exist in a clean vacuum yo. not a pointless gravity space requiring filler to sustain object separation. avid and X can both take a running jump in a lake on that notion.
[Oliver Peters] “[Aindreas Gallagher] “you can’t even disable a clip for god’s sake.”
Soon. But OTOH, you CAN change track visibility (monitoring) without losing renders.”
what, good Peters, is this basic trivial required render you speak of? is this hellish avid logic? that avid ever thought this was a 2014 feat? To turn on a video layer in real time. such achievement. much wow.
sorry – but come on.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] ” To turn on a video layer in real time. such achievement. much wow”
Except that FCP 7 couldn’t do it without losing the renders. Change track visibility and renders go poof. I’m not sure about Premiere, but there certainly are times you have to render in PProCC, too. And speaking of render link management, FCP X still leaves a lot to be desired.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “What are we – special requirement editors? super clap handies moving dot happy connected timeline fans?”
I’m an editor who needs to cut stuff quickly so movie studios can meet deadlines and advertise their multi-million dollar movies. The less time I have to spend thinking about being a technician the more time I can spend being creative. Maybe creativity doesn’t matter to you.
I’m working in our beloved FCP 7 this week, and I’d like to throw it off a cliff. The amount of time I spend patching tracks and playing track tetris is just stupid. Maybe not an issue if your source has 1 or 2 audio channels, but juggling 6 or 8 from the source, and 24+ in the timeline is an enormous waste of time. Not that I ever knew how stupid it was before X. It’s really stupid. And Pr is even more annoying with it’s multiplicity of “smart” tracks and convoluted mixing workflow. And I know how to use it, you should hear the questions I get, and see the messes i need to clean up, from the poor bastards who don’t.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “but seriously, given no production house on any scale in the UK or broadcaster is touching it with a barge pole – what is anyone supposed to do with that.”
Who fricking cares what anyone else uses.?! Not me. 🙂 Maybe if I was freelancing, but I’m not. I use whatever I need to, If I’m flying solo I use X. If I have to swap work with people who use something else I do. The “industry standard” is still MC Aindreas…. get to work! 🙂
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Oliver Peters] “Except that FCP 7 couldn’t do it without losing the renders.”
no indeed sure – all my stuff with CC is easy mxf via avid aaf so far, although I’ve monstered it a little with mixed stuff elsewhere, I end up thinking that it can handle things quite well and it looks a lot like AE with a basic 7 philosophy – I could kiss that – frankly I have kissed that. I’m not really a viable case study.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Charlie Austin] “The “industry standard” is still MC Aindreas…. get to work! :-)”
You’re not wrong…
[Charlie Austin] “Maybe not an issue if your source has 1 or 2 audio channels, but juggling 6 or 8 from the source, and 24+ in the timeline is an enormous waste of time. “
ah no – to be fair bud, I did say cut a top gear promo for international sales for BBCWW where I intercut the guys between seven different dubbed languages as a gag. real benny hill thing – lots of fun, lots of preparation. you do sort of need clearly defined rigid audio tracks to play that game.
(edit – not blowing my horn there – point is that was one of the more complex audio edits i’ve done. half the translations drifted to different timings as well. It was mayhem. I believe you need tracks there.)
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] ” you do sort of need clearly defined rigid audio tracks to play that game.
(edit – not blowing my horn there – point is that was one of the more complex audio edits i’ve done. half the translations drifted to different timings as well. It was mayhem. I believe you need tracks there.) “
I honestly believe that Roles and the Timeline Index are a much better way to manage audio in a cut. Not visually at this point, but as far as keeping track of/manipulating stuff in a timeline. It might be nice to group roles in the timeline, but it makes no difference to me. When I export for a mix they’re all sorted for me, I just press a button. Yes, I need a 3rd party app for that. Who cares. If you like/prefer fixed tracks, fine. Not me. 🙂
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Oliver Peters] “The other problem I have with Premiere is the push for native media all the time, with no fallback to transcoding.”
AME and Prelude both provide transcoding workflows should you wish it. AME provides a background process through watch folders. Prelude provides partial ingest as well as tagging and subclipping as part of the process.
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[Charlie Austin] ” are a much better way to manage audio in a cut. Not visually at this point,”
charlie, without wanting to sound in any way dismissive here – visual understanding has to be a pretty key issue and omission. audio elements are either locked in a VA container, or they are detached elements with no sync information – or are fx stuff and they all jump up and down like yo yos depending on your edit actions.
that’s not exactly a massively workable scenario.https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “visual understanding has to be a pretty key issue and omission. audio elements are either locked in a VA container, or they are detached elements with no sync information – or are fx stuff and they all jump up and down like yo yos depending on your edit actions.
that’s not exactly a massively workable scenario.”I understand what you’re saying, and sort of agree about jumping up and down, though I’m used to it so I don’t pay attention to it anymore. Roles that stuck together would be a nice option. However, in my case sync/production audio rarely leaves the clip it goes with, so it’s always in the primary with pix. If I need to detach it, for a cheat or to use some production sfx somewhere else, I’ll comp it back with the video if it’s lot of little phonemes all chopped up or something, or just leave it connected. And it never moves left or right unless I specifically move it. That would be a problem, but vertical movement isn’t. It’s in sync is all that I care about. If I need to see a specific Role I’ll just highlight it in the index. I really don’t have a problem with it and I do some fairly crazy audio editing.
Managing connections is all that matters, and while it does take a little effort, it’s way easier for me than relying on tracks and out of sync markers. Mainly because it’s only out of sync if I move it. And you can always re-arrange clips manually in vertical space if you want. I always keep my MX at the bottom of the pile,, and will create secondaries if I really need it fixed in a linear way. But I really don’t miss fixed tracks at all. Also, those little snorkels everyone complains about are a huge timesaver syncing FX, MX hits, DIA cheats etc, as you see the vid frame the connection point attaches to in the viewer. As I said, I’m cutting in 7 today about 30 tracks deep and I wish i was doing it in X. Sadly, I need to collaborate with an editor on 7, so I’m trapped. 🙂
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Aindreas Gallagher] “charlie, without wanting to sound in any way dismissive here – visual understanding has to be a pretty key issue and omission. audio elements are either locked in a VA container, or they are detached elements with no sync information – or are fx stuff and they all jump up and down like yo yos depending on your edit actions. that’s not exactly a massively workable scenario”
Not only that, three years later and you still can’t do a simple copy/overwrite paste of audio in the primary.
Epic FAIL.
BTW, I’ve been using FCPX every day for the past couple months for the gig I’m on as a logging/organizing tool. It’s working beautifully. But I cut in Premiere – still The Honeybadger of Timelines™
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David Lawrence
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