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Premiere Pro CC versus FCP X
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “Avid is a bag of cats that wants you to see the timeline as a sequence of keyboard driven additions or deletions from a growing or shrinking sausage link chain of uninterrupted video, where you act only on the trim points.”
I have no idea what in the world that means 😉
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I’m developing a thesis there…
OK. Avid doesn’t really want you to even use a move tool, certainly a really large number of avid editors I’ve recently encountered don’t. Avid is not an open timeline.
Its entire notion is a careful keyboard IO driven set of additions to a cardinal timeline. Once they’re in there, they are supposed to be sausage links in a video chain – you operate on the link points. All avid ever is is a timeline trim operation. Basically, in their terms its one great lump of video where you faff around with the trim points, but really, they don’t think you should be doing too much of that. because you made the edit decision right?
you can’t even disable a clip for god’s sake.that’s all fine if you’re making simple deadly serious assemblies of performance and scene. But it’s all rather awful if you are trying to throw around an absolute ton of elements and alternates, making grab bags away down the end of the timeline, for any million of different reasons that arose in all the new edit use cases over the last ten years.
Avid is completely awful for all of that. also the effects handling is utterly ludicrous, the key framing is a joke for the ages, and if it was any more clicky track patchy – you might as well just go and call yourself a seamstress. so there’s that.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “…if you are trying to throw around an absolute ton of elements and alternates, making grab bags away down the end of the timeline, for any million of different reasons that arose in all the new edit use cases over the last ten years.”
Which is what the FCP X timeline is absolutely perfect for. 😉 I cut like that in 7 and Pr as well. Just madly re-arranging, storing bits at the timeline tail etc. FCP X wins that particular fight hands down.
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
Well, I would suggest that most of your assumptions are wrong and are based on how you see editors use the software and not what the software actually does. Granted, there are a lot of things on there that were added over time to make it more FCP-user-friendly. As far as timeline interaction, it works exactly the same as FCP7 and Premiere Pro, with a few exceptions.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “want you to even use a move tool”
It is there though, albeit it a bit more cumbersome than in FCP 7, simply because it’s not the default mode.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “Avid is not an open timeline.”
This is incorrect terminology. An open timeline means you can throw a lot of different sizes and codecs on the same timeline. By that definition, Avid is most certainly “open”. If you mean to say that clip manipulation in the timeline isn’t as freeform as with FCP 7 or Premiere, then yes, you would be correct.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “Once they’re in there, they are supposed to be sausage links in a video chain – you operate on the link points. All avid ever is is a timeline trim operation. Basically, in their terms its one great lump of video where you faff around with the trim points,”
I don’t think that’s really accurate. In fact, that’s basically how X works. I think what you are really reacting to is how filler (blank space) is handled. With all track-based NLEs, this is actual media, however, with MC it’s more obvious and until recently, has caused obscructions. The main limitation with MC is that you can’t start with a blank timeline and add a clip anywhere other than the beginning. You can certainly move clips around within the beginning and end of the timeline.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “you can’t even disable a clip for god’s sake.”
Soon. But OTOH, you CAN change track visibility (monitoring) without losing renders.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “But it’s all rather awful if you are trying to throw around an absolute ton of elements and alternates, making grab bags away down the end of the timeline, for any million of different reasons that arose in all the new edit use cases over the last ten years”
Have you actually tried it? I would contend every TV and film editor that regularly uses Avid would completely disagree with you.
[Aindreas Gallagher] “also the effects handling is utterly ludicrous, the key framing is a joke for the ages, and if it was any more clicky track patchy”
Agreed. The effects tool is very long-in-the-tooth. OTOH, the keyframe model is definitely better than FCP X. And speaking of effects in X, why can’t X still not do built-in X and Y rotation?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “[Charlie Austin] “FCP X wins that particular fight hands down.”
Not saying you’re wrong, but I’d be interested to know why you think X is better than any other NLE for that purpose. I reckon you can do it pretty much the same in most of the ones I know.”
No clip collisions/accidental overwrites etc. Ability to “store” unused/disabled clips anywhere above or below the primary no matter whether they are A or V. Auditions. Quickly creating CC’s and then breaking ’em apart in the TL. Audio components for sync audio so I need only move one object rather than 2 or more for every clip. Not needing to carefully lasso groups of related AV clips to move or rearrange.
Essentially just the fact that I can throw anything pretty much anywhere without thinking about the consequences. I can just cut, and sort out the mess later. 😉
Yes, you can work the same way in other NLE’s. Sort of.
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
Apple has a volume-program in certain regions. Not yet Sweden. The whole Apple ID-solution is at the moment broken for groups. Seeing they are adding features like “family connections” in iOS 8 they are looking into “group tech” but at the moment – at least in Sweden – the AppStore model is a huge issue for businesses buying apps.
One should be able to:
A) Link multiple accounts into groups
B) Merge multiple accounts into one
C) Transfer purchases between account
D) Redeem items between accounts
E) Give temporary access to items between accounts / based on account groupsFor a single man show it’s not a problem with the Apple ID / AppStore model of today. For us just being two people needing an NLE I immediately run into the above issues that I just do not understand why Apple hasn’t fixed yet.
The above a side I’m going to have to put FCPX and PrPro CC 2014 more to the test now that we’ve got a nMP to see what our future platform will be.
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[Erik Lindahl] “Seeing they are adding features like “family connections” in iOS 8 they are looking into “group tech” “
FWIW, it’s coming to Yosemite, and the app store, as well. I would imagine they’ll figure out an “enterprise” version. Maybe they’ll cal it “Company”® 🙂
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
They could call out iCorporate perhaps? 😉
I am an avid user of FCP X!
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[Charlie Austin] “No clip collisions/accidental overwrites etc.”
What are we – special requirement editors? super clap handies moving dot happy connected timeline fans? I get that people say its fun, but seriously, given no production house on any scale in the UK or broadcaster is touching it with a barge pole – what is anyone supposed to do with that.
apple laid an egg with X. the egg is nearly three years old. certain people are doing some amazing things, but relative to what apple had in 7, they now have a dead egg.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Erik Lindahl] “For us just being two people needing an NLE I immediately run into the above issues”
Why is that? I work at a number of small shops with 5+ machines that are all bought on a single Apple ID account by the company owner. While technically not OK with the EULA, Apple seems to ignore it, as long as it doesn’t get out of hand, I guess.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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