Premiere Pro CC versus FCP X

[Oliver Peters]

“From the FCP X timeline design you can’t have an audio track within the primary that is a separate clip from the video that’s in the primary.”

Actually that’s not completely accurate. You can open any clip in its own timeline and change or replace any audio within it. Once edited to the primary, this clip acts like any other clip.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Craig Alan]

[Brett Sherman] “What you suggesting is a bit convoluted (no offense) creating a compound that doesn’t behave like a compound. Remaining editable in the timeline but a container of sorts. It would be a whole new object in the FCP X logic. “

Well, I could certainly see it NOT happening. But it seems to me that compound clips shows that it could be done. Compounds seem to be an answer for so many needs within FC that its strange to me that the one that is in place saves it as a parent clip. That to me seems convoluted. How many times do you make a change to a clip in one instance and want that change to occur in projects you are not even actively editing? What I would prefer is to be able to save any clip to the browser since the browser is essentially a storage container. Now you can do that by making it a compound. But you best be careful that if you reuse this clip that you save it as a new master.

I’m not saying that if you have a TV series or show that you might not reuse the same opening clip, but it’s a very specialized need. The fact that as soon as you break the components of a compound clip apart you can’t put it back together is less than ideal though I guess creating a new one isn’t that hard. But now you have the uncorrected one left in the browser.

Here’s a common example where you might like to overwrite dialog in the primary: ADR.

Here’s another: comedies where you are putting words in people’s mouths and maybe even deliberately out of sync.

You could do either with connected clips.

But given how sloppy a non-tracked timeline can become beyond 3 or 4 layers, its kind of nice to form a compound to simplify things and make sure they stay in sync.

[Brett Sherman] “From the FCP X timeline design you can’t have an audio track within the primary that is a separate clip from the video that’s in the primary.
“

That’s true. So in order to overwrite just the audio in a dialog you’d need to detach the audio.

If it were possible for the code to be written so it could be done directly that would be great. But if not it could certainly be detached, overwritten, and then married again like or as a compound.

And even if this is a ridiculous convoluted idea on my part, certainly you should be able to copy and overwrite paste anything on the timeline without going back to the browser.

How many times do you want to over write an A/V clip in the primary with just a different audio clip. Cause that’s what happens now. Is that by design? Does it make sense? Don’t you think it would be cool if you could expand audio components, copy and paste between clips and then collapse audio?

My guess is that all this is really just a visual presentation on the timeline since back in the browser the original clips are just being referenced and not changed. So Apple could, I’m guessing, be able to write the code to present the timeline and add features however they like.

But let’s say I’m wrong and that my idea is convoluted cause its against FCP X basic design.

Certainly you should be able to over write a connected detached audio clip from either the browser or the timeline. But you can’t or correct me if I’m wrong. Cause if I have a connected clip of audio and I select something in the browser and click D it overwrites the primary even if the connected clip is selected. In fact even if I set a range on the connected clip it will overwrite the primary storyline. That’s pretty bizarre behavior. Now only if I am overwriting audio from one audio clip to another on the same storyline will this work as expected. In other words I need to create an audio only storyline. In short, it’s own track.

If there is another way, I’m all ears.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

Oliver,

Still not getting it.

You open a clip in its own timeline. It’s expanded in its own timeline. You select a range in the audio.
You have audio edit only selected and range in a clip in the browser selected. You try to over write and the visual clip get over written. So how do you overwrite audio only? Not with audio only but with and to audio only. With the exception of a storyline of all audio clips I can’t figure it out.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Oliver Peters]

[Craig Alan] “So how do you overwrite audio only? Not with audio only but with and to audio only. With the exception of a storyline of all audio clips I can’t figure it out.”

In my example I wasn’t talking about a way to paste-overwrite. I was addressing the statement that a master clip could only contain the original audio and video. In FCP X that’s not the case. A master clip is merely a container and it can be “destroyed” (requiring re-import) if you aren’t careful.

There is no way to do an audio-only paste-overwrite that doesn’t also affect video in the primary. The workaround is to paste as a connected clip and then duck down the audio in the primary audio channels.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Craig Alan]

[Oliver Peters] “In my example I wasn’t talking about a way to paste-overwrite. I was addressing the statement that a master clip could only contain the original audio and video. In FCP X that’s not the case. A master clip is merely a container and it can be “destroyed” (requiring re-import) if you aren’t careful.”

Which is why I feel that Apple could add overwrite ability. and consistent copy paste.

But – once you open a clip in its own storyline what would be the workflow for replacing the audio and then returning to the original storyline with this new audio as part of the primary clip?

Also if you really need to do a lot of audio overwrite and other changes to the primary audio as I mentioned above you can

detach audio from the primary clips
create a storyline of these detached audio clips
select an audio clip within the new storyline
shift-F (reveal in browser)
select range to be overwritten
D (overwrite)

then if you wish to keep individual clips magnetic
break apart audio storyline.

and if you wish you can then create new compound clips using the now connected audio and the primary clips.

The only problem here is you end up with a whole mess of compound clips. And I keep hearing if you have compounds in compounds this could lead to file or project corruption.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[David Lawrence]

[Craig Alan] “Also if you really need to do a lot of audio overwrite and other changes to the primary audio as I mentioned above you can

detach audio from the primary clips
create a storyline of these detached audio clips
select an audio clip within the new storyline
shift-F (reveal in browser)
select range to be overwritten
D (overwrite)”

Or you could just cut in Premiere, where it only takes a single keystroke 😉

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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[Charlie Austin]

[David Lawrence] “[Craig Alan] “Also if you really need to do a lot of audio overwrite and other changes to the primary audio as I mentioned above you can

detach audio from the primary clips
create a storyline of these detached audio clips
select an audio clip within the new storyline
shift-F (reveal in browser)
select range to be overwritten
D (overwrite)”

Or you could just cut in Premiere, where it only takes a single keystroke ;)”

Or just cut in FCP X as connected clips and comp ’em together if it’s particularly convoluted audio cheat. Just disable the primary audio if you don’t need it. The nice thing about X is you can just turn it back on if you change your mind. Sync isn’t an issue because connected clips don’t lose sync unless you move them.

I really don’t understand either side of this “discussion”. I mean, i get what you both are saying, but I do this stuff in 7, X and Pr all the time. Cutting/cheating dialog in X is easy, without going through any convoluted workarounds. Just work with it the way it works. It ain’t rocket surgery. 🙂

————————————————————-

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~

[Steve Connor]

[David Lawrence] “Or you could just cut in Premiere, where it only takes a single keystroke ;)”\
\
and a rental contract (if you want the latest and much better version!)

Steve Connor
Mellowing slowly

[Craig Alan]

Why do you need to do primary audio overwrites so often? Are you working with ADR?

Unfortunately, funding for my program does not work with Adobe’s billing practices.

I also seriously considered AVID but the learning curve was rather steep and then there were rumors of it being in the RED.

In premier you still need to select-copy-select-paste.

I don’t do a lot of primary audio overwrites. When I need to – connected audio and ducking the primary audio does the trick. However, if I ever needed to or just wanted to create a tracked timeline in X. I do think a secondary storyline is a viable alternative.

Since its all keyboard shortcuts except making selection’s (isn’t this generally true?) I think it goes pretty smoothly.

shift-F (instead of command-C)
D (instead of command-V).

Granted turning FCP X timeline into a hybrid tracked timeline is an extra step
And I do think it could be made more ergonomic.

Also granted simple copy paste would be more INTUITIVE since it is universal as you pointed out.

Very simple feature request: overwrite any connected clip with D or command-V.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[David Lawrence]

[Craig Alan] “Why do you need to do primary audio overwrites so often? Are you working with ADR?”

Not ADR specifically, but I often have ADR-like needs when building a radio cut and especially when “franken-clipping”.

My editing style is very influenced from working with sound in DAWs. We had a very interesting conversation about this three years ago:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/16886

Note that trackless DAWs are still basically nonexistent. I think there’s a reason for that.

Also, I think it’s cool that three years later, I’m finally getting my wish to use FCPX as a DAM 🙂

[Craig Alan] “Granted turning FCP X timeline into a hybrid tracked timeline is an extra step
And I do think it could be made more ergonomic.

Also granted simple copy paste would be more INTUITIVE since it is universal as you pointed out.

Very simple feature request: overwrite any connected clip with D or command-V.
“

Yes. Yes. Yes.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
https://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl
vimeo.com/dlawrence/albums