P2 HD 2/3″ CCD camera

[Nick B]

‘No. From what I know of the HD XDCAM it is 720p 1080i switchable.’

Thats interesting as Sony have been anti 720p in the past.

I did hear the price would be less than

[Simon Wyndham]

Actually I might even be wrong on that front. My source of information states “shoots 16:9 aspect ratio 1080-line pictures in native 50i or 25p,” Make of that what you will :-))

[Accountclosedduetopolicyviolations]

[Steve Connor] “We haven’t seen pictures from any of these cameras yet so you can only base this on theory at the moment!”

I do not have to wait Steve.
Any Thomson head will ……all over any Sony one,especially 1/2′ one.
When it comes to format like XDCAM HD,I think it is the step back.
In another 2 years people will forget about it and it will be replaced by another 5 Sony formats.Panasonic P2 is far more flexible in a long run and so is Thomson’s.
Do not underestimate Thomson,they are all about quality and high end.
In six months you will change your mind.
jiri vrozina

[Simon Wyndham]

Urr right. And Thomsons are used by which networks? Do you own a Thomson ENG? What are you basing your judgement on? Have you used a HD XDCAM? What is your basis for comparison between P2 and XDCAM? Have you used both? I could tell you a few facts regarding both. Disadvantages and advantages, and they don’t come through heresay.

Seriously folks, this is starting to sound like playground kids arguing over whether a Ferrari Enzo could beat a Lambo Diablo.

[Toke]

Sounds like 1080p25…
Question is: will 35Mbps be enough?
I’m very sceptical about that…

[Toke]

Oops,
but anyway like Graeme said, interframe compression usually has 1.5-2.5 factor over intraframe compression with same picture quality.
If xdcamhd is 6-gop, then it might be closer to 1.5.
So to have same quality as with 100Mbps dvcprohd you would need 66Mbps xdcamhd.

[Ivan Kacer]

It will be better then HDV but not equivalent to HD. I think this camera is aimed to fill the space between HDV and HD. It may be Sony’s solution for biger camcorder. Instead building similar HDV one like upcoming JVC with better camera head (2/3″ CMOS CCDs and true 1920x1080i) still using tapes, Sony XDCAM use blue disc and have variable compression option up to 35mb/sec on 1/2″ IT CCDs. All depends about price and quality results if that will be serious player in war of formats.

[Accountclosedduetopolicyviolations]

[Simon Wyndham] “Urr right. And Thomsons are used by which networks?”
You should know-You live in Europe.
If not just ask Thomson,they will supply You that information.
Down Under one station is using Thomson.

[Simon Wyndham] ” Do you own a Thomson ENG? What are you basing your judgement on?”
I own Thomson.I have owned 8 broadcast camcorders in past 22 years.

[Simon Wyndham] “Have you used a HD XDCAM? What is your basis for comparison between P2 and XDCAM? Have you used both?”
Yes we tested XDCAM….but I guess the discussion is about HD??
Sony will try to lock users into their own format,in this case it is XDCAM HD.
Tha fact is-P2 storage is far more flexible….especially in “long term”.
My jugment is based on logic and some experience in this industry.

Well Simon,since You know so much about cameras and formats,look into your “crystal ball” and explain to all of us some benefits as well disadvantages of formats we are
discussing at the moment.

[Simon Wyndham] “Seriously folks, this is starting to sound like playground kids arguing over whether a Ferrari Enzo could beat a Lambo Diablo.”
You meant MG and Ferrari…….
Jiri Vrozina

[Accountclosedduetopolicyviolations]

100% right Ivan….
jiri

[Simon Wyndham]

Jiri, I’m sorry if I came across in a condescending way. I am so used to people on these forums making comparisons of high end cameras that they will never be able to to use or buy that I got a bit fed up of the way these cameras were being talked about.

Nobody here has used any of these new cameras yet. But I can say that the new HD XDCAM variation, limitations or not, is currently only one of two shouldermount non linear camera systems that records high def images (the other being Ikegami’s Editcam). Now what I would really like to hear about is if anyone here has experience of Ike’s Editcam?

Regarding P2, I still do not see its flexibility, even in the future. Even when capacity increases the footage will still need to be offloaded. There is no way to keep the footage on the original recording medium unless P2 comes down to $25 per card as per the XD discs.

I just do not like the idea of having to have even more equipment and hard drives to have to offload P2 footage onto during a production. Some people have cited that film only has limited run time per reel. But that is a limitation of film. I see no reason why such a limitation should be hoisted upon video as well. We should be beyond that.

If I am recording a live show with XDCAM I know that the discs are so cheap I can afford to bring a few more along just in case without having to offload footage as I go along. I recently had to video something as simple as a stunt show. As a solo cameraman there was no way I could have recorded P2, carried on videoing the event while hotswapping a P2 card for footage offloading onto a hard drive at the same time!

Currently, thought this may change in the future, a few more advantages of XD over P2 at the current time are;

1. The ability to organise clips on the disc and group them according to shot type, or scene number for example.
2. In the new XD firmware you can name the clip files too to make searching for the right clips from the disc even easier. P2 currently has no clip organisation at all. A case in point was on the P2 forums not so long back where an editor was rather annoyed at having to sift through hundreds of files with no clue as to what each one was.
3. Remote footage logging in the new firmware.
4. Proxies can be recorded to Memory Stick meaning that for initial editing you can have the speed benefits of solid state while still recording the footage to a durable and cheap storage medium.

A lot has been made of P2’s speed as well as the discussion of the ins and outs of solid state storage. But hardly anyone has gone into the actual usage features of both systems before.