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P2 Clips are 23.98
Bob Zelin wrote this on the Kona forum a while back.
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NEVER work in 23.98 ever again. You are in the television business, and like everyone else, you must deal with 29.97 footage – it’s a fact of life. Your DVCProHD VTR can output your 23.98 material at 59.94 (a normal frame rate for standard def upconverts). Had you done this (done your job at 59.94, and not 23.98), you would have had ZERO problems. But now, you will be in render hell (or you will recapture your entire project).Make believe 23.98 doesn’t even exist (unless you are the DP). Learn how to set all Sony and Panasonic VTRs to do the 2:3 pulldown, so you can always capture at 59.94.
————————————————-This is great, but we get files on a hard drive that are 23.98 when we import them into FCP. I was simply dragging them to a bin from the hard drive, but maybe I should have been using the new capture tool for P2. I want to work in a 29.97 timeline, upper field DVCProHD. What is the best way to get these P2 clips into FCP so that they are 29.97 upper field?
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media -
27 Replies
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Wow- that is an *incredibly* misinformed post you are quoting there. Nearly every movie and TV show currently in production posts at 23.98. If you need to add a pulldown you can easily do it at the end of post-production and with a deck or output card.
Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, Apple Color and now the HVX200!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
Uh, Noah, that “misinformed” post comes from a guy who regularly works with small companies like Disney Television, etc., configuring their systems and setting them up.
Just thought you’d like to know, in case he chooses to run a few words up your bum. Which is likely, having read Bob in the past.
— Mark
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We are WELL aware of who Bob Zelin is. But either that quote is taken out of context, or the person using that format was doing something wrong.
I have mainly used DVCPRO HD at 23.98, with some 60p (59.94)footage thrown in for nice slow motion conversion. Our deliver masters are 1080p 23.98, so it is a perfect match. And I can even output to digibeta, downconverting on the fly, and converting 23.98 to 29.97 with the use of the Kona LH card.
A lot of what you shoot really depends on what your final delivery master is. This is something you must know before you shoot. If you are going to deliver a 1080p 29.97 master, it would be easier to shoot and edit 29.97…although not a requirement. But working with 23.98 footage with a final 29.97 master in mind takes a bit of knowledge, and tends to overwhelm some people. This is why I and a few other suggest that if delivering at 29.97 master, shoot and edit 29.97.
I highly doubt that he meant NEVER EVER EVER shoot and edit 23.98. There are many workflows that demand it.
And if that is what he meant…that he was horribly WRONG! And anyone can be wrong…
(the proceeding statement was to egg the legendary Bob into responding to this post…spoke in a light hearted manner):^)
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.lfhd.net -
I know who Bob is- unfortunately the original poster did not provide a link so I have no way of reading the context. As someone who’s fought the perception of 24p as some sort of technical boondoggle for many the year perhaps I overreacted. I’m sure Bob did not actually mean to say never post in 24p period. And if he did, well I respectfully disagree, especially as it relates to the HVX200. 🙂
-Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, Apple Color and now the HVX200!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
Until I can track Bob down myself, my understanding is that he’s found shooting 23.98 for 29.97 delivery causes more problems for most people than it solves.
But I’m sure he’ll be happy to weigh in.
tw
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Hi guys. I posted because I almost always cut in 29.97 for DVD delivery. We are almost always standard def editing as well. I don’t get to choose what format is shot. I get a drive with P2 clips on it and they are usually 23.98. I need to make them 29.97 with pulldown so I can cut them into a standard def timeline. I can output them to tape and then re-batch digitize. What I would love to do, however is be able to take 23.98 clips and convert them to 29.97 so they play nicely with the rest of the project. We also mix in standard def footage quite a bit so working at 29.97 is preferred.
I was looking for workflow suggestions to get the 23.98 to 29.97. Many times I get a 720P tape shot at 23.98 and I almost always digitize it 29.97. The deck does the work (or the card). That works perfectly.
Working at 23.98 has not been ideal, and I’m getting 23.98 clips on a hard drive.
Thoughts?
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media -
Tell whoever is providing you with this footage to start shooting 29.97. You can shoot 24p at 29.97 and still get the “film look.” You are the editor, you are the one dealing with the final delivery. YOU get to tell the camera guy what format you want shot. At least I do.
23.98 to 29.97 to intercut with 29.97 footage? Or do you just need the drop frame timing?
Shane
Littlefrog PostGETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.lfhd.net -
You are aware DVDs can be created at 23.98 right? In fact probably 99% of all Hollywood DVDs these days are encoded at 23.98. The only reason to *have* to cut at 29,97 is when you have to mix 24p with legacy 60i footage. Adding a pulldown as you play out a final edit to tape is done automatically by most decks and HD video cards, not to mention by FCP itself to Firewire…
Noah
Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, Apple Color and now the HVX200!
https://www.callboxlive.com -
[Shane Ross] “You can shoot 24p at 29.97 and still get the “film look.””
Can you elaborate on that? Doesn’t make sense to me…
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[Jason Jenkins] “Can you elaborate on that? Doesn’t make sense to me…”
Differences between 24p and 24pA in DV
Quoting Graeme Nattress’ article found at Ken Stone’s site:
https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/24p_in_FCP_nattress.html
“24p Normal
When shooting in 24p Normal, the camera is adding normal standard 3:2 pulldown to the video, which results in 24p footage designed to work with any non-linear editing suite and it will play back and look good directly to any NTSC monitor. You can use 24p Normal footage just like normal video from any DV camera, and everything will work fine, but obviously, the footage will have a film look to it. If you
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