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Old dogs new tricks
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[Robin S. Kurz] “I find that to be a meretricious cop-out and gross devaluation of any and every vision, effort and/or intention they, the FCP dev team, had or have with FCP X if you ask me. Since if the whole thing somehow didn’t matter either way, then why DID they code the by far most elaborate app they ever have to date? Why not go the “easy route” as I described? Why even have FCP at all? Your notion makes no sense whatsoever to me in light of the facts. And no, not just to sell hardware, even though that will have played into it, sure. Duh, they’re a profit oriented business.”
Robin, I think you may be misreading me. Perhaps you have seen my comments that are pro-Adobe, or pro-Avid, or pro-Autodesk, and assumed that this must mean I am anti-Apple. This is not the case; I just chafe a bit at the sentiment so often expressed here that FCP X is the NLE of Destiny and that using any other is a poor choice.
These are not your words, but with your missionary zeal about FCP X and near refusal to recognize anything positive about a competing product, this is how you often come across.
Instead, I have this crazy “vive la différence” point of view that there’s something unique to be appreciated from each of the NLEs on the market right now.
I rather like FCP X. I like the “search don’t sort” approach to organization. I was skeptical about the timeline, but now my biggest criticism of FCP X’s timeline is that it’s not FCPXish enough!
I like Motion, too, having used it since version 1. I’ve sold FCPX/M5 onto projects where they were the best choice, but the Apple apps just happen to be ill-suited for my needs most of the time.
I happen to think that for Apple to build a modern app that simply aped Macromedia’s 1990s thinking, ignored the metadata-driven design foundations they had established in their other home-grown apps over the last few years, and was narrowly targeted at a demanding niche market would have been the hard choice: it’s not a good fit for Apple today at all! How would you justify that decision in light of what Apple has become in the last 15 years?
FCP X is an NLE, done the Apple way. Surely you don’t disagree with that.
It would have been a colossal risk for any other company in this space to introduce a radical, new, incompatible NLE: one that could have cost them nearly their entire user base. Do you disagree with that?
I stand by my words. It was brave of Apple to re-imagine the NLE, but it was uniquely easy for Apple to “think different” in this space.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Simon Ubsdell] “I guess what you’re saying here is that you haven’t ever actually used Media Composer, is that right?”
Huh?? The relevance being?? :-)))
But very little at the time, yes. Imagine that! So are we down to straw-men and red-herrings now? Is the fact that it made no sense to me on any level at the time (nor today for that matter) so utterly inconceivable for you? Am I somehow insulting you personally with that or does that not fit into your world? Because I have no clue why we’re even still debating this. I’m amazingly okay with my decision. Go figure. You want to do stereoscopic on Avid because any other solution is out of the question… be my guest. I actually don’t care. Weird, huh?
Whatever…. feel free to continue with whatever (unidentifiable) agenda you’re following…
– RK
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[Oliver Peters] “[Shawn Miller] “The US is definitely not falling behind in high-end commercial/VFX work. ”
And, of course the complete antithesis of that spot ;-)”
lol – I guess there’s always someone willing to blow the curve.
FuseFX, that is my answer to that video. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixg6EaLkhgo
Shawn
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[Bill Davis] “The most recent company to take a stab at improving the actual PROCESS of video editing was Apple with X. A particular editor may not agree that it improved anything, but it’s crystal clear that it was that – the desire to IMPROVE things that was the driving force behind the X rebuild. To IMPROVE editing for editors.”
No, I believe it is quite clear from everything Apple has stated about the origins of X is that it was created to improve the editing experience for non-editors. The fact that it might improve things for some experienced editors as well was merely gravy.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Andrew Kimery] ”
I think think there is a lot of confirmation bias where one side always things the other side is acting worse.”That’s why I said “if anything”, meaning either way there is a lot more complaining about “offensive” posts than actual “offensive” posts (I’m not sure I can identify a single one.) We all just need to chill out.
[Andrew Kimery] “I assume means if you use anything other than FCP X you’re doomed to failure”
I think that’s part of the problem here. I don’t “assume” it means that at all.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “But very little at the time, yes. Imagine that! So are we down to straw-men and red-herrings now? Is the fact that it made no sense to me on any level at the time (nor today for that matter) so utterly inconceivable for you?”
Thanks for clarifying the state of your knowledge of Media Composer – it’s helpful to know exactly what it is in the light of the current discussion.
Here’s why, expressed simply:
If Mr A says that X is better than Y, but then it transpires Mr A has little or no knowledge of Y, then Mr B is surely entitled to question the validity of Mr A’s argument that X is better than Y. Yes, Mr A is employing an ad hominem argument, but it’s a case of an entirely valid ad hominem argument. Mr A is not properly qualified to state that X is better than Y if he doesn’t in fact have equal knowledge of both. Of course he can legitimately say that he prefers Y but that’s something quite different.
You may be entirely correct in your conclusion that FCP X is superior to the other NLE’s currently on the market, but if you are correct, then you’re correct by accident rather than through actual knowledge. (If you are not saying that FCP X is superior, then I apologise for misrepresenting you.)
Oliver P. started this thread off by pointing out that each NLE has its strengths and weaknesses and each has a different appeal to different segments of the market, which seems to me a pretty reasonable position to have adopted. Moreover Oliver has I think been editing since before the days of DW Griffith and it is well known that he has taken the time to “dive deeply” (in Bill’s phrase) into a wide range of editing systems.
It seems odd to me that those who shout the loudest about the superiority and uniqueness of FCP X are also those who have the least experience of NLE’s not made or developed by Apple. FCP X enthusiasts with a wider knowledge of what else is out there tend to be far less strident and far more ready to accept that other options have equal worth.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Whatever…. feel free to continue with whatever (unidentifiable) agenda you’re following…”
I really don’t have an agenda, I’m afraid – but your suggestion that I do is of course a classic example of an ad hominem argument 😉
For my part, I really don’t have a preference among the top three NLE’s currently on the market and will use (and have used) whichever is most suitable to the job at hand. Same with most of the professional applications I use, whether it’s audio, or mograph, or VFX, or 3D – I let the context decide. And sometimes, of course, the client dictates what I should use which means my preference is not relevant.
I just don’t see the point in trying to decide on the “superiority” of one application over another and then sticking with that through hell or high water. Learn as many of them as you can, keep learning, and keep revising your opinions as circumstances change, because what is true today will almost certainly be a lot less true a year from now.
The more perspectives through which you view the craft of editing, the better editor you become – and keeping abreast of all the latest developments across a range of editing systems is a great way of doing that.
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
See what you started, Oliver? 🙂
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “See what you started, Oliver? :-)”
Well, you can’t say it hasn’t been a lively discussion 😉
Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com -
[Oliver Peters] “But I also see that my use of X is the exception.
“Yup. X is simply my “go-to” editor right now. I rarely have the thought of “gee, can I do this job in X”. I just do it. The software has gotten so natural and fast for me that moving to another platform is an uncomfortable thought (Lord help me, I may have a Premiere job in the next few weeks…shudder). X and Resolve are the two platforms I find superior based on my criteria and workflow. YMMV based on yours.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Simon Ubsdell] “Surely he didn’t say that, though.”
Fair point. I did misread his point on speed a bit. I read it as saying you could be equally fast with any editing program. Which I do not believe is true at all. So my apologies for that.
[Simon Ubsdell] “I think though there is a trend here to try and imply (if not state outright) that there is something exceptional about FCP X that sets it apart from the competition.”
Number 1. I don’t think anyone is stating this outright. Number 2, I believe the implication is in the interpretation, not in what is being said. Number 3, if that’s someone’s opinion, so what. Why are we trying to limit discussion here? There are people who post here that think Premiere is exceptional. I have no problem with them.
It’s also ironic in your post you just stated things that make Media Composer exceptional, but yet somehow are saying it’s out of bound to do the same for FCP X. The difference between saying elements of FCP X are exceptional (as you seem to agree with) versus saying the entire editing application is exceptional is sort of silly to attempt to sort out. FCP X IS exceptional with the timeline (meaning no other editing program uses the same paradigm). What is the point of hashing this out? And why is there so much sensitivity about this?
If you please tell me what I’m allowed to say it would be much easier. 🙂
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